BFII Fairmont or VZ Commodore SV6

AU Mont · 02-09-2012, 05:01 PM

Have been researching a few hours for my next car and have sort of narrowed it down to the BFII Fairmont (non ghia) and the VZ Commodore SV6. Both these cars can be had for under 11k without much bargaining needed. Reason why i didnt compare VZ Calais' is they seem to be asking way too much

Both have 190kw engines, and both are large cars with ample space and both are a little better equipped than the taxi spec models in their respective models.

Positives for the fairmont is i love my fords so am biased there, and the interior imo is a little nicer. The grunt and torque of the I6 is great and delivers power smoothly.

Downside is the quality issues that seem to plague the B-series. 90% of the reviews ive come across paint the BF in a much darker light than the VZ. Brake rotors and diff bushes failing after a handful of km's seems to be a common issue amongst others, but im hoping BFII owners may have a different opinion here

Positives for the Holden is the general consensus from reviews the VZ is a more reliable and thought out vehicle (BIG plus). The SV6 also comes with LSD as standard, along with a bodykit giving it the edge lookswise. Transmission is a 5 speed auto compared to the 4 speed in the ford. Sports suspension is a plus as well.

Downside is the 190kw doesnt feel like the 190kw in the falcon donk, and when pushed sounds like its being tortured. The carsales stats say its a fair bit more thirsty than the fairmont, and as thirsty as my AU V8 which is a little confusing. Along with being used to fords for so long, the holden is a big unknown to me.

Looking for general unbiased opinions on these two cars. If you dont agree with my 2 options, then what would you recommend for a large automatic, 180kw+ sedan, bit more luxurious than a base model, 2005 and younger, less than 120,000km, not too much of a fuel guzzler, and can be had for less than 11k easily.

Heres a couple of examples with decent pics

BFII Fairmont
http://www.carsales.com.au/dealer/de...-2007-13278122

VZ SV6
http://www.carsales.com.au/dealer/de...-2005-13242128

**Mechan1k** · 02-09-2012, 05:26 PM

I was never a fan of the interior layout of the VZ ... my in-laws have one .... and I have driven it a fair bit .... but still just feels so difficult to drive.

They also feel like a narrow long vehicle ... mroeso than the BFII.

BF also feels like more of a solid vehice on the road as well.

Oh ... BF Torque is where it is at ... the VZ lacks it considerably and this shows up in drivability.

poppa smurf · 02-09-2012, 05:34 PM

after owning the BA I have to say I wasn't a fan (I need a largish vehicle for towing).....it's growing on me a little now that it is actually staying out of the workshop a little bit

would I buy another?.....I dont think so...not after the strife I've had with this one

would i buy a commodore?...... nope!

prydey · 02-09-2012, 05:45 PM

au mont - don't be too put off by the negative reviews. generally people only bother to write stuff when they are having issues, so the poor reviews will be over represented.

maybe see if you can find a bf2 with the 6sp. well worth the extra coin.

also, have you considered a FG XT? sure its a base model, but it has a fair bit of kit, goes a little bit better, french 5speeder is still better than the 4sp and the general consensus is the quality took a step in the right direction as well.

i can't offer any advice on a commodore. being dyed in the wool blue, i would never buy one.

mash85 · 02-09-2012, 05:49 PM

we've had both in the family.

I've owned a ba xr6 turbo (pretty heavily modified too) and havent had any dramas with the brakes warping, i have had to replace pads a fair bit though.
I agree, the B series interior is light years ahead of the VY and VZ Commos. The Fords feel at least a generation newer.

I found there was more front legroom in the commo, but I also found it more uncomfortable on longer drives and I found it difficult to see out of. I think most people will agree, if your used to Falcon's, sitting in a Commodore will feel like a freakshow.

The v6 in the commo always sounded strained. And whilst the tranny had an extra ratio, i didnt find it as intuative as the 4speeder or the 6 speeder B series. Given youre looking at a BF will yours be a 6 speed?

I've done diff bushes in my xr6, but they originals lasted 120,000 kms. and again, mine is pretty heavily modified.

the only other issues ive noticed with b series cars, is the power windows seem to crap out a bit.

overall, id get the Ford over the Commo all day long. It's the everyday things which annoy me too much in the Holden to live with it - the annoying vision, the motor which seems under powered, the annoying cruise control wand (whoever thought of that at Holden should be shot) and the ****** HVAC controls

**Dave R** · 02-09-2012, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by poppa smurf

after owning the BA I have to say I wasn't a fan (I need a largish vehicle for towing).....it's growing on me a little now that it is actually staying out of the workshop a little bit

would I buy another?.....I dont think so...not after the strife I've had with this one

would i buy a commodore?...... nope!

BFII is much more refined than BA.

ute83 · 02-09-2012, 05:48 PM

Neither, but check out the Mitsubishi 380.

AU Mont · 02-09-2012, 05:52 PM

Mechan1k, comment noted.

Poppa smurf, yeah i read about your bad experience with your BA MKII, something i hope to avoid. Hopefully your car can play nice now after spending the dollars on it.

ute83, ive had a good look at what the 380's have to offer and checked out a mates spec'd model because it looked so nice on the outside, but the interior & seats felt as cheap as a carton of Power's Gold

Prydey i was certainly thinking about the FG XT's, the 6 speed versions are beyond my 11k budget. I also heard the 5 speed's are rubbish and unreliable, however if they have a better rep than the 4 speed then its something i would really consider as there are plenty at the auctions for with under 150,000km. I have heard alot of people complain about the FG quality issues as well though

lol mash85, advice has been noted. Im looking at a good example with a 4 speed, rather than a clapped out car that happens to have a 6 speed, becuase the budget is 11k. FG XT 5 speed is also an option depending on how reliable the early models are

Road_Warrior · 02-09-2012, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AU Mont

Prydey i was certainly thinking about the FG XT's, the 6 speed versions are beyond my 11k budget. I also heard the 5 speed's are rubbish and unreliable, however if they have a better rep than the 4 speed then its something i would really consider as there are plenty at the auctions for with under 150,000km. I have heard alot of people complain about the FG quality issues as well though

Where have you "heard" about these "issues"? There is nothing wrong with the 5 speed auto in the FG's, let alone the FG itself. Especially compared to the quality of the BA/BF series.

AU Mont · 02-09-2012, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Where have you "heard" about these "issues"? There is nothing wrong with the 5 speed auto in the FG's, let alone the FG itself. Especially compared to the quality of the BA/BF series.

ive been a member of various ford forums for a number of years, i cant recall exactly who & when, but do recall people mentioning issues on this and other forums a number of times.

Issues that shouldnt happen in a late model car, let alone one thats just out of warranty which needs expensive parts to fix and would make me wish i'd kept my reliable AU. Just want to make sure im making the right decision, and not one that could cause me alot of stress and empty pockets

atmoxr6 · 02-09-2012, 08:51 PM

sunday paper in perth, '10 falcon xt, alloys 100 000klms, doesn't say if its 5spd or 6spd auto, $12,999.

poppa smurf · 02-09-2012, 06:52 PM

mate, i honestly think mine was one of the "bad ones" suspension wise........I don't know if you would have the same dramas.....maybe mine was consistently driven on rougher roads or something I don't know

I think if my experience was a common theme Ford would have gone broke long ago.....so common sense tells me it is not

if you can get a BF MII in good nick with relatively low K's for $11,000 I think you would have a good buy........I paid $14,000 (cash) for mine

but I stress......please have the suspension checked BEFORE you buy the vehicle

I much prefer the Ford over the Holden, I've driven both and the Holden strains in places where the Ford simply "pulls"

my vehicle is actually very good now but it's going to leave a bad taste in my mouth for a while

I am getting over it

T4ME · 02-09-2012, 07:05 PM

id go an Aurion or 380 over the above,if I had to have one of them though it would be the BF,only due to my dislike of the Alloytech,the car itself aint that bad really.

Struggo · 02-09-2012, 07:08 PM

VZ for me :-)

**Mont5.0** · 02-09-2012, 07:10 PM

Id go a BFII again. Brake shudder and Rear diff bush were common problems through out the B series range but are easily sorted now. My BFII has been nothing but a pleasure to drive- so much i have decided to keep her a few more years and pour some hard earned into her. Obviously the decision is yours, but for me BFII all the way!

AU Mont · 02-09-2012, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mont5.0

My BFII has been nothing but a pleasure to drive- so much i have decided to keep her a few more years and pour some hard earned into her

is the hard earned going towards fixing/replacing stuff, or modifying it?

**Mont5.0** · 02-09-2012, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AU Mont

is the hard earned going towards fixing/replacing stuff, or modifying it?

Purely modifications. The only thing i have had to fix was the wires breaking in the indicator stalk.(15min job). Being a wagon, havent had the diff bush issue, and my brakes dont shudder, so really is a reliable car as far as i am concerned.

JG34JA · 02-09-2012, 09:06 PM

Good luck AUMont, got to drive these new for work and family has owned VY.
I remember eagerly anticipating and being bitterly disappointed when first driving the Alloytecs, I could discern no difference to the Ecotec in my father's VY. He asked when I got back, "How did it go?" and I replied, "Keep yours". The 190kW would want to be better.
Do you do any long distance driving? Get the Ford if so. Consistently more comfortable in this situation and the motor is a gem.
The VZ steers well and I got the impression rode better around urban areas, - it's lovely negotiating roundabouts and winding estate style roads and seems to glide along on very little torque (didn't drive SV6 which is harder sprung). The VY wagon we have is smooth and rides well in this situation also.
VY has been reliable, as has our SY Terry of the same era as you are looking.
Also consider an XR6 if one presents, I had a BF for about 1800kms of work and it was fantastic, also surprising was the amount of people who stopped to look at it (Venom red) when I considered it a stock standard XR6... Got 8.4 on the highway with it too. Fairmont will be more comfortable, but balance of XR6 was just right.
Also experienced a BF Egas ute in same era, that one really impressed as well, great economy and low down torque surprised me.
If you can get Fairmont/XR6 with the ZF, it's worth the extra... fantastic gearbox. Funny thing is I hanker for a good AU with its low down torque/IRS and driving dynamics, but they are not getting any younger!
My 2c

WPR1 · 02-09-2012, 07:57 PM

I would pick the fairmont I have had both and I think the Fords are built better and I love the torque from the Ford 6 it has a much stronger big engine feel.

Nikked · 02-09-2012, 08:45 PM

BF interior puts the VZ too shame...

AU Mont · 02-09-2012, 08:57 PM

yeah theres a few in the brisbane auctions buy it now price 11k, im thinking i may go the FG XT, thats of course unless a 11k FG XT fleet car comes with heaps of dents scratches, missing spare key etc.

Hayden1 · 02-09-2012, 10:39 PM

I just skimmed over this thread and it seems people are comparing BA's to BF's? Yes they are almost the same but there would have been some notable improvements over the years. Please correct me if I'm wrong to think Ford fixed the massive issues the BA had.

Either way I would go the falcon. The fact that people are recommending to look for a 6spd doesn't mean the 4spd is bad.

calais · 02-09-2012, 10:59 PM

I just went through the same buying process as the OP.

I ended up with a VY Series 2 Supercharged V6 Calais.

Mine has been dyno tuned, and slightly boosted. There is nothing that will stick with it as far as I am concerned given what I paid for it. I am quite partial to how it looks too. Stock as a rock but quite a weapon in a straight line for what it is. Returns nice fuel economy too, over 15,000km and 8.9l/100km.

I sadly didnt fit so well into the BA-BF series Falcon. I just couldnt lower the seat enough in relation to the steering wheel. The Calais just fit me a little better.

FGX-351 · 02-09-2012, 11:17 PM

I've never really liked the drive characteristics of the Alloytec motor(with that said i've only driven 175 versions).

I found the engine to be quite harsh and the lack of torque to be quite noticable in comparison to the Barra190.
It's not bad but it's noticably not as nice to drive.

I've also never been impressed with the GM 4spd boxes, I find them to be a little to indecisive.

Hope this helps but your best bet is to get a hold of both models and drive them back to back and see which one better suits your needs, or whichever presents the better deal.

deesun · 03-09-2012, 12:02 AM

Oh yeah BA's are unreliable for sure, mine 2003BA bought 12 months old with 18k on the clock now has 250k. Early brake warping, 1 shave and different pads and they lasted till 140k, change discs and pads. Handbrake was rubbish, 1 adjust under warranty and 1 adjust cost $60, after that it stayed unused till recently when I moved to QLD and had to for rego. 1 window winder in 9 years. 1 power steer pipe. So apart from normal servicing thats it, if you call that unreliable you're a hard taskmaster. Nothing has broken inside everything works. LPG added in 2008. I also have a 2009 FGXR6T, WHOOSHKAAAA, 3 years old no bush probs. Everything works but 1 window control replaced under warranty, not the winder mech. I can't complain. LPG added in 2012. Cheap WHOOSKAAAAA.

mik · 03-09-2012, 01:13 AM

a couple of thoughts, the standard limited slip diffs after 100,000 k`s are usually getting close to reverting back to single wheelers, so i`d think twice about buying a car with high k`s because it has a lsd,
disc rotors are consumables and big heavy cars regardless of the brand and wil be hard on them especially if you drive them sportingly.
as above, drive both see what you like.

PoweredByCNG · 03-09-2012, 01:36 AM

Got two BAs (an XT and an XR6) and a VZ (SV6) here.

The VZ wins hands down with interior finish and seating quality. The VZ's centre console control layout is a lot more intuitive. Prefer the BA sports shifter to the cumbersome VZ paddles. The VZ tends to be slightly better on fuel but the engine lacks the low-down torque of the BAs and the engine is not as smooth and sounds raspy at high revs. Fleet operators report that the VZ drivetrain isn't as reliable as the BA/BF with shorter engine life being a particular worry, although BAs had transmission cooling issues that can easily be solved with the installation of an external transmission cooler. The VZ has a more usable boot with a flat load space that allows for a larger LPG cylinder to be installed (75L compared to only 52L on BA/BF/FG) without sacrificing storage space. Both VZ and BA/BF have fit and finish issues such as wildly varying panel gaps, doors that don't quite close as solidly as they should, patchy paint quality and poorly fitting interior plastics.

In terms of serviceability, the BA easily wins here with plenty of space under the bonnet and good components accessibility. Everything is pretty much located exactly where you expect it to be.

All I've said about the BA applies equally to the BFs as well.

prydey · 03-09-2012, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PoweredByCNG

The VZ has a more usable boot with a flat load space .

i, and many other falcon owners, love the fact that that floor isn't flat in falcons boot.

AU Mont · 03-09-2012, 07:56 AM

wow thanks for the advice people, some good info there

is it true that all BFII's had a separate trans cooler bypassing the radiator?

prydey · 03-09-2012, 08:12 AM

yes, trans cooling is via a heat exchanger on the block, however apparently these can still corode out and fail. i had a bf2 until just over 100000km and never had a drama and currently have no issues with the FG which uses the same heat exchanger.

they are not an expensive item, and one of the members on here who runs a taxi fleet, changes them every 100000km for that extra insurance. if they do corode out, the damage to the gearbox is the same as previous with the radiator coolers.

i wouldn't let it put you off though.