Will Ford have it's own eight six?

[barra240t]

Just a question, from what we know by now Ford will have an ecoboost Mustang next year, does this mean we will have our own sort of fatter version of an 86? Does anyone know if the 4 cylinder will be rear drive?

[ryeman]

Originally Posted by barra240t

?.............from what we know by now Ford will have an ecoboost Mustang next year, does this mean we will have our own sort of fatter version of an 86? Does anyone know if the 4 cylinder will be rear drive?

Really?

[flappist]

So Mustang 1612?

I suspect the septic one will be RWD ecoboost but I cannot see it working in Australia. The 86 is a Toyota MX5 hardtop and as such is light, cheap and small.

Mustang will be none of those.

Like the Monaro, the Mustang will be potentially three types; V8, bigger V8 and ones that don't sell well.

Comparing a Mustang V6 or T4 against an Infinity or Lexus or at a stretch 370Z, 3 series BMW, little Merc coupe will be a tough sell let alone adding the FWD/AWD coupes.

[Moby Vic]

Originally Posted by flappist

Like the Monaro, the Mustang will be potentially three types; V8, bigger V8 and ones that don't sell well.

I'm not sure if you're just talking about Australian sales here. In the US, the base version of the Mustang has always outsold the V8 versions.

And the next Mustang is supposed to be (slightly) smaller than the current one, and Ford has announced intentions to sell it internationally by offering it in both LHD and RHD form. If there's an RHD version available with no conversion required, I don't see why it would be a particularly expensive car in Australia.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Moby Vic

I'm not sure if you're just talking about Australian sales here. In the US, the base version of the Mustang has always outsold the V8 versions.

And the next Mustang is supposed to be (slightly) smaller than the current one, and Ford has announced intentions to sell it internationally by offering it in both LHD and RHD form. If there's an RHD version available with no conversion required, I don't see why it would be a particularly expensive car in Australia.

Australia.

Our market is very different to the US market as can be shown by sales of Taurus etc.

[Moby Vic]

Originally Posted by flappist

Australia.

Our market is very different to the US market as can be shown by sales of Taurus etc.

Believe it or not, Ford North America doesn't hinge on the Taurus, and hasn't since the '80s.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Moby Vic

Believe it or not, Ford North America doesn't hinge on the Taurus, and hasn't since the '80s.

Probably not, but the Taurus was an example of American bean counters thinking that the Australian market is the same as the US market only smaller.

[Franco Cozzo]

I still think the best looking Mustangs are the ones which ran from 1999-2003 which Tickford did the conversions on, except for the extra lights in the front bar, looks a bit odd.

[dimka100]

And why does Ford need an 86???

Originally Posted by barra240t

Just a question, from what we know by now Ford will have an ecoboost Mustang next year, does this mean we will have our own sort of fatter version of an 86? Does anyone know if the 4 cylinder will be rear drive?

[flappist]

Originally Posted by dimka100

And why does Ford need an 86???

Why does Ford need a GT? Or any car for that matter.

The Toyota 86 has shown itself to be VERY successful and highlighted a rather lightly exploited market.

If the Mustang comes here then it will also be a 4 seat, RWD coupe in the same genre as the 86 so may sell well if priced appropriately.
I personally suspect that such a vehicle will be more successful in the higher end but I am sure the marketing people will do their homework before anything happens.

But is answer to your question, from my point of view the most compelling reason for Ford to build a vehicle similar to the 86 is to annoy the 86 hating trolls so much that they drown in their saliva as they dripple uncontrollably on their keyboards while thrashing out yet another tantrum on facebook, blogs and any forum that has not yet banned them......

[dimka100]

VERY successful??? and how do you exactly measure success by? Is it the number of published magazine articles with the usual dribble? or is it the number of 16 yearolds salivating about the car they can't afford anyways?

Last time I checked the build numbers of the 86 are very very small, and so are the sales numbers world wide. Combined with a low purchase price carrying barely any profit margin and you have a car that financially makes no sense! Also don;t forget the significant R&D investment they had to make into a dedicated chassis/engine, no wonder they split the cost with Subaru.

For Toyota the 86 is purely a marketing exercise aimed at improving the overall brand recognition, so more people flog to Toyota and buy their typical fridges and washing machine white goods.

As for the GT, are you really asking why Ford AU needs this car? The GT is a very high profit margin revenue generating model that takes advantage of all the completed R&D for the basic falcon and wraps it into a package costing double more!

Originally Posted by flappist

Why does Ford need a GT? Or any car for that matter.

The Toyota 86 has shown itself to be VERY successful and highlighted a rather lightly exploited market.

If the Mustang comes here then it will also be a 4 seat, RWD coupe in the same genre as the 86 so may sell well if priced appropriately.
I personally suspect that such a vehicle will be more successful in the higher end but I am sure the marketing people will do their homework before anything happens.

But is answer to your question, from my point of view the most compelling reason for Ford to build a vehicle similar to the 86 is to annoy the 86 hating trolls so much that they drown in their saliva as they dripple uncontrollably on their keyboards while thrashing out yet another tantrum on facebook, blogs and any forum that has not yet banned them......

[Raptor]

Surely if Ford had one it would be a Capri


Drive article: Back to the future





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[Rev28K]

How is the 86 successful? Surely this is troll baiting.

Let me see, let me see.

Halo car for Toyota and Subaru? Yes. I wandered in to a showroom last week because they had a BRZ in there.

Critical acclaim? Yes

Only player in a wide open audience? Yes (Cheap hardtop, RWD 2+2)

Sales figures? Yes, 6 month waiting list in the worst case. And it’s kept Subaru’s factories active. The driveline isn’t that unique, so can’t be that expensive. Have a look at the markup that people were charging for selling a just delivered new 86.

Will it keep selling? Maybe. The rumoured convertible and supercharged versions will be easy to spin off and keep sales bubbling along. I’d have one in a flash if I could afford it (I’ve got 1 potential tow car, 1 club reg FWD track/road car & 1 half built RWD track car). If I had a lottery win an 86 would be in my dream garage along with all of the exotics.

Competitors? In that price point, not many. Mazda will have to sharpen up the Miata, and jump in to bed with Alfa to stay competitive. Chevy have their 130R concepts but they may just be vapour ware or only as successful as the Pontiac Solstice or Saturn Sky. Name me another cheap RWD coupe with sporting credentials.

Aftermarket support? Yes, there is so much pent up demand. Just the official TRD stuff (6 pot calliper brakes, coil overs, frame strengtheners, front and rear strut braces, forged wheels, etc) is pretty bloody good. And that’s without touching the driveline.

I was at the gym on an exercise bike for half an hour. The gym overlooks an Autobahn carpark. A new Toyota 86 was in the carpark, this was when the pre-ordered ones had just got in to the hands of the buyers. It was staggering the number of people that were checking it out on their way in and out of the store. Probably one every 30 seconds, over the time that I was watching.

[ryeman]

But you can't drop the top!

[Rev28K]

Originally Posted by ryeman

But you can't drop the top YET!

Fixed your post for accuracy

http://news.drive.com.au/drive/motor...201-2dor0.html

[Bossxr8]

Sales are already dropping, just like all coupes tend too, once the initial buzz wears off. They are fashion statements that start hot until the next cool thing comes along and the previous one gets forgotten about. Monaro anyone?

[flappist]

Quod erat demonstrandum........

[jpd80]

In the USA, the Toyota 86 is sold as the Scion FR-S which averages about 1,500 sales a month.
Given the size of that huge market, I think that level of sales is quite unremarkable.

[Rev28K]

Aaaaannd Toyota have quite deep pockets. So they can afford to take a hit on some of the president's vanity projects to give their range an "aura". Lexus LFA anyone?

Toyota - duking it out for no.1 with VW (my money is on VW long term)
Nissan - Their Renault owners are looking shaky.
Mazda - begging for funds to develop new models and seeking out partnerships
Mitsubishi - dont know. Seem to be surviving OK since separating from MB
Honda - painfully conservative. New Type R and NSX can't come soon enough. In profit?
Suzuki - oh dear (painful divorce from VW tech sharing, not selling cars in USA).

Everything Toyota produces doesn't have to be profitable in its own right as long as it has reflected glory on the company. The same argument has been used by Mitsubishi-Evo, Subaru-STi WRX and especially Nissan-GTR for ages.

[GTP-814]

excuse the ignorance, but does the 86 mean

[jpblue1000]

Originally Posted by GTP-814

excuse the ignorance, but does the 86 mean

Spiritual successor of the original AE86, the bore and stroke of the engine is also 86 mm

jp

[Polyal]

Yes here a 6 pot mustang makes little sense, while we dont have much historic evidence of it a good example is the CV6 Monaro..didnt last so long. It kind of defeats the purpose of buying a Mustang I would have thought.

Cant believe people are still knocking the 86..unreal. They have since released a RA version and a convertible coming up. As mentioned above while obviously they will want to make money on it the value its added to Toyota's rep is also a factor.

[greenfoam]

I saw an 86 parked in the street and it had a constant stream of people stopping to take pictures of it with their phone, in fact I don't think anyone that walked past failed to stop and look and I doubt many of them knew what it was. I actually took a picture of it myself, the allure of the car is quite overpowering for some reason !.

It might not sell in huge numbers but the respect and future sales at Toyota it will generate are magnitudes greater than the money the car itself will make. You can see by the way Holden sell semi dodgy cars with a respected badge glued on them, that the brand itself is 3/4 of the battle. Holden earned it's current sales on the racetrack in the 70s, 80s and early 90s. Time is diluting that now but it lasted for a very long time, if you can impress the kids with no money today, you make sales later on. Kids of today don't give a single crap about V8 muscle cars so it's pointless trying to impress them there.

[Windsor220]

Ford don't need an 86. We already have GTs, F6s, Mustangs, Focus RS and STs etc. Toyota have the Fisher and Paykel catalogue.

[roberts]

nothing that is popular is ever cool

[2011G6E]

There were rumblings some years back about a "new Cortina"...a rear drive four cylinder small to medium Ford sedan. This was before the big economic collapse though.

Toyota saw the writing on the wall...bigger and bigger engines in larger and heavier cars do not a volume seller make. They developed the 86, and now they can't keep up with demand. This drives a lot of car journalists and, especially, hard core car guys to mental breakdown..."but it only makes 147kw!!! How can anyone drive a car with less than 300kw on the road and still have fun!!!!????"

Easy...a nicely balanced chassis and adequate power is all you really...honestly...need if you aren't spending every weekend at a track day or the dragstrip. Look at a lot of the road tests...they are having a ball chucking it around and sometimes comment in an amazed tone "and we didn't even get near the speed limit". Toyota did the traditional business model and saw a hole in the market and filled it.

Ford could do it...the Mustang is way too big to be "a Ford 86". The problem would be it would require a new platform to be built, which is expensive. Unless of course you could somehow "shrink" the current Falcon platform and stick an attractive coupe body on top?

I suspect however that if such a car were developed here in Australia they would feel the need to simply try and jam as big an engine as possible into it and rely on straight line power and 0-100 figures and quarter mile times rather than develop something with a nicely balanced driving experience that requires the driver to actually get involved in driving it to get the most out of what moderate amount of power the car does have, rather than brutishly just sit back and plant the foot while screaming in a Jeremy Clarkson-ish voice "POWERRRRRR!"...

[geckoGT]

I think the answer to the OP's question is a rather simple no, especially in the Australian market and it has a lot to do with buyer perception.

The mustang has and always will be perceived as the V8 pony car, full of brawn and bad manners but a **** load of fun and road presence. Yes I realise many if them (most actually) do not have V8's but they still live under that reputation.

The Toyota 86/Subaru BRZ is a different animal. It was never designed to be a bruiser of a pony car or give that perception. It is designed to be a sports coupe that delivers a sports driving experience through its RWD and a cracker of an engine. It is more of a rival to the Mazda RX8, Nissan 370Z etc.

I think if ford tried to market a ecoboost stang against the 86 it would be a shame and a poor choice in marketing. Then what would happen to the V8 stang, it clearly is not the same class of car that the 86 is. You would then have to market the stang in two very different markets.

[MercurySilver]

i seriously dont see what all the fuss is about the 86
but each to their own
if im buying a mustang i dont think ill be buying an ecoboost version

[2011G6E]

There is a whole marketing area that is based on image alone.

Most Mustangs are V6 models...and lower end versions. Why not? For the rediculously low price they are in the USA, why not choose a cheap to run lower end vehicle that still has the amazing looks? Holden shot themselves in the foot with the Monaro by making it into a prestige V8-only model instead of, as with the original Monaro, making them in everything from "basic two door Kingswood" models to the hero versions...people could have that great looking car but run it on a beer budget.
How many V8's do Ford sell? Certainly not as many as six cylinder Falcons...especially XR6's...you've got the look, but without the running costs of the hero models.
Audi did it with the original TT...amazing looking body and styling, but underneath it was as basic as it came with a low powered engine.

If you could get a Mustang for a reasonable cost (close to a Falcon?) but with cheap running costs of an ecoboost, more people will line up to buy it.

High powered hero cars don't sell volume...but they do attract people to the show room to buy something else...possibly something that looks very similar.

[greenfoam]

+1, there is absolutely no reason why the Monaro or any two door version of a common car needs to be or should cost more than the base model. That's a major marketing error right there.