"Holden just needs to pay normal wages and it won’t need [Govt] handouts"

[peterljohnson55]

Herald Sun's political commentator, Andrew Bolt, reports that the Australian Financial Review's industrial relations columnist, Grace Collier, says ...

"there is a way to make Holden profitable that doesn’t involve more massive handouts from taxpayers .... If the Holden workers went back on to the award, Holden would be miraculously transformed. Labour costs would drop by somewhere between 50 and 75 per cent."

Now that is a novel approach - what do you think?

See the rest of Bolt's brief presentation of Collier's reasoning here...

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/a.../#commentsmore

[UberKnee]

Wont happen, people want as many perks as possible even if that means they don't have a job in a few years time.

[malazn mafia]

And if Australians paid normal grocery prices (US Prices) and there was no fuel tax, and GST down to 2.5% perhaps workers wouldn't need such high wages either...

[chevypower]

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

And if Australians paid normal grocery prices (US Prices) and there was no fuel tax, and GST down to 2.5% perhaps workers wouldn't need such high wages either...

If there was no (or very little) fuel tax, sales tax, and entitlements, food prices could go down because the cost of running businesses (farms, FMCG companies, grocery stores) would be much lower. More businesses would be established, creating more choices, more jobs, and more competition; sales prices would drop as a result. But entitlements are better political sellers than proven economics because the majority of voters are emotional and love the word "rights" more than they want to acknowledge facts, even if it hurts them.

[BadMax]

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

And if Australians paid normal grocery prices (US Prices) and there was no fuel tax, and GST down to 2.5% perhaps workers wouldn't need such high wages either...

You failed to mention one of the lowest hourly pay rates in the USA is about $4.25 and hour. That certainly puts into perspective the low prices they have.
It's irrelevant what people in the USA pay as their wages reflect their economy.

Let's be honest, show me another economy that pays unskilled labour 60K per annum plus other benefits. The unions are driving manufacturing out of Australia demanding higher salaries for unskilled workers.

Looking at some of the commentary, it's very common for an employees to try and make their debts their employers problem.

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by BadMax

Looking at some of the commentary, it's very common for an employees to try and make their debts their employers problem.

In the smash repair industry its horrible, quite often the employees are the ones that cop the brunt...


I'd hate to see the minimum wage dropped...

[Venomous1]

Prices never go down so why should my wages go down. bad business is bad business.

[RANGEREST]

Originally Posted by Venomous1

Prices never go down so why should my wages go down. bad business is bad business.

Coles and Woolworths may disagree about the prices,
It could also be said that paying wages at 50-75% above the award is "bad business" too.
I pay my guys well above the award, but not any where near 50- 75% above, If that were the case they (and I) would be out of a job.

[burnz]

Originally Posted by velvet

Coles and Woolworths may disagree about the prices,
It could also be said that paying wages at 50-75% above the award is "bad business" too.
I pay my guys well above the award, but not any where near 50- 75% above, If that were the case they (and I) would be out of a job.

it's been touted that they are on $1000~$1100 pw

so that are over paid 50%???
so the trade wage is what $500~$550 pw gross? ...I wouldn't get out of bed. bag of rice $2 p/h

[cheap]

Originally Posted by burnz

it's been touted that they are on $1000~$1100 pw

so that are over paid 50%???
so the trade wage is what $500~$550 pw gross? ...I wouldn't get out of bed. bag of rice $2 p/h

That the whole point of the argument, they should be paid commensurate to their duties, and their duties are not worthy of a +$100K wage

If you like paying for other people to be on over inflated wages go right ahead and keep the status quo. I suppose you also like paying government workers high wages for sitting on their butts pushing paper work around and making sure the public complies with their latest hair brain scheme. So let me tell you having been a private consultant to government, that is exactly what happens, they do have to justify their positions somehow.

And the cost of keeping these workers turning nuts, bolt, installing wiring and a raft of other menial duties is +$100K wages, which it seems is funded mostly by the taxpayer.

This once great country needs to realign itself with reality, we do need a car industry but it doesn't need +$100K workers doing what a robot can do...

[Iggle Piggle]

Originally Posted by cheap

That the whole point of the argument, they should be paid commensurate to their duties, and their duties are not worthy of a +$100K wage

Is their normal wage (ie. no overtime etc) really more than $100k?

[Bowser22]

Originally Posted by cheap

That the whole point of the argument, they should be paid commensurate to their duties, and their duties are not worthy of a +$100K wage

If you like paying for other people to be on over inflated wages go right ahead and keep the status quo. I suppose you also like paying government workers high wages for sitting on their butts pushing paper work around and making sure the public complies with their latest hair brain scheme. So let me tell you having been a private consultant to government, that is exactly what happens, they do have to justify their positions somehow.

And the cost of keeping these workers turning nuts, bolt, installing wiring and a raft of other menial duties is +$100K wages, which it seems is funded mostly by the taxpayer.

This once great country needs to realign itself with reality, we do need a car industry but it doesn't need +$100K workers doing what a robot can do...

Wow. You really have your FACTS wrong don't you. You'd be lucky to find more than a dozen REAL workers that earn more than $70k p/a, you have picked up some of the inaccuracies that are thrown around by those who don't know the facts.

[RANGEREST]

Originally Posted by burnz

it's been touted that they are on $1000~$1100 pw

so that are over paid 50%???
so the trade wage is what $500~$550 pw gross? ...I wouldn't get out of bed. bag of rice $2 p/h

I pay my employees above award rates, stated below plus work cover, super and holidays. I'd assume factory workers are on similar money but add all the "benefits" they receive (52 weeks redundancy for a start) and it costs a considerable amount on top of that.
.
BUILDING TRADESPERSON
HOURLY, **CASUAL 20% Loading



Registered Plumber
$22.76 $27.31
Plumber/Gasfitter
$22.28 **$26.74
Bricklayer
$22.05 **$26.46
Plasterer
$22.13 **$26.56
Carpenter / Joiner
$22.25 **$26.70
Plasterer
$21.57 **$25.88
Wall & Floor Tiler
$21.57 **$25.88
Bricklayer
$21.49 **$25.79
Roof Tile Fixer
$21.36 **$25.63
Painter
$21.15 **$25.40

[burnz]

Originally Posted by velvet

I pay my employees above award rates, stated below plus work cover, super and holidays. I'd assume factory workers are on similar money but add all the "benefits" they receive (52 weeks redundancy for a start) and it costs a considerable amount on top of that.
.
BUILDING TRADESPERSON
HOURLY, **CASUAL 20% Loading



Registered Plumber
$22.76 $27.31
Plumber/Gasfitter
$22.28 **$26.74
Bricklayer
$22.05 **$26.46
Plasterer
$22.13 **$26.56
Carpenter / Joiner
$22.25 **$26.70
Plasterer
$21.57 **$25.88
Wall & Floor Tiler
$21.57 **$25.88
Bricklayer
$21.49 **$25.79
Roof Tile Fixer
$21.36 **$25.63
Painter
$21.15 **$25.40

so you happy for holden worker to be on $13.00 ph
$25 an hrs is a $1000 pw and they are over paid 50~75 %%

the cost of living is at $19 ph @38 hrs week..

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by velvet

I pay my employees above award rates, stated below plus work cover, super and holidays. I'd assume factory workers are on similar money but add all the "benefits" they receive (52 weeks redundancy for a start) and it costs a considerable amount on top of that.
.
BUILDING TRADESPERSON
HOURLY, **CASUAL 20% Loading



Registered Plumber
$22.76 $27.31
Plumber/Gasfitter
$22.28 **$26.74
Bricklayer
$22.05 **$26.46
Plasterer
$22.13 **$26.56
Carpenter / Joiner
$22.25 **$26.70
Plasterer
$21.57 **$25.88
Wall & Floor Tiler
$21.57 **$25.88
Bricklayer
$21.49 **$25.79
Roof Tile Fixer
$21.36 **$25.63
Painter
$21.15 **$25.40

Your only paying your carpenters mid 20s per hour.........they are the most important piece of the puzzle on any job site. Modern carpenters know almost all the trades, as cross trade awareness is needed more then ever. I wouldn't show up for less then $37 phr. Most chippy labourers get $22phr

[karj]

And if the Herald paid Bolt a normal wage, News Corp Australia would have more money to spend on quality journalists.

[Nikked]

Economy is a funny, frail thing. Bit like the butterfly effect...

One thing to say lower taxes, everything will be fine, but funding needs to come from somewhere...

[chevypower]

Originally Posted by Nikked

Economy is a funny, frail thing. Bit like the butterfly effect...

One thing to say lower taxes, everything will be fine, but funding needs to come from somewhere...

Spend less, stop subsidizing programs that can be done by free market capitalism (such as paying private companies in hopes that something good will one day become of it). It makes the playing field uneven. Why would anyone want to start a company or invest when the govt is giving handouts to a competitor? So level the playing field (by actually making it level, not by giving advantages to some and disadvantages to others), lower the cost of doing business. The govt should release more land to lower the price (not artificially keep it high to satisfy investors) and stop taxing success. Offer a lower flat tax to make people want to succeed.

So what should the government focus on? Services that cannot be done competitively by the free market. You can't have competing road infrastructure in the private market. You can't have five freeways next to each other and take the one offering the lowest rate. So the government has to pay to build one road network. But you can have multiple private road construction contractors competing to win a bid from the government (that increases efficiency), as long as the politicians and winning suppliers are scrutinized to determine any conflicts of interest. If they stop wasting money, and focus on the few things that need federal funding, you don't need to keep taxes so high. Also, more money would be coming in from more companies and people working contributing to the tax revenue. Libertarians understand this concept very well.

[snailbate]

Originally Posted by peterljohnson55

Herald Sun's political commentator, Andrew Bolt, reports that the Australian Financial Review's industrial relations columnist, Grace Collier, says ...

"there is a way to make Holden profitable that doesn’t involve more massive handouts from taxpayers .... If the Holden workers went back on to the award, Holden would be miraculously transformed. Labour costs would drop by somewhere between 50 and 75 per cent."

Now that is a novel approach - what do you think?

See the rest of Bolt's brief presentation of Collier's reasoning here...

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/a.../#commentsmore

I would like to aske Mr Bolt would he like to lose between 50 and 75 $ of hes salary
thats a stupid idea
Terry

[99AUXR]

I'd like to see politicians lose some of their salary. . . .

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by 99AUXR

I'd like to see politicians lose some of their salary. . . .

I'd like to see some of them earn it!

[99AUXR]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

I'd like to see some of them earn it!

Too true.

[Windsor220]

I'd say they are on about 60k normal wage. If I remember correctly the award rate is roughly around $18 an hour so would drop to under 40k based on a normal 40 hour week.

[imugli]

Bit of a catch 22 really...

Higher wages (legislated minimum wages) contribute to inflation because people have more money to spend which causes more demand for things. More demand for things causes the prices to rise. Rising prices cause the need for wages to increase because people ark up that they can no longer afford what they used to, unions strike, companies & governments give in and on and on we go. Part of the reason US prices for things are so low is because a) there's no minimum wage, so people literally cannot afford to pay exorbitant prices for things and b) economies of scale. They 300million+ people to sell to.

Strip the minimum wage here and watch the price of things plummet because people would no longer be able to afford even the basics at current prices. (I'm not advocating it, just using it as an example).

That's VERY simplistic and there are A LOT more contributing factors, but you get the idea. Businesses will charge what they think people can afford.

[burnz]

In the past, Holden has misinformed us on its workers’ salaries, claiming the average worker earns $55,000....

While the Modern Award base salaries for vehicle builders are in the modest $37,000-$42,000 range, the base rates in Holden’s agreement are in the $60,000-$80,000 range. Add on to this loadings and penalties and I am comfortable betting that if Holden was compelled by government, as it should be, to produce the group certificates of workers, earnings would show in the $100,000 to $150,000 range.

the gov already knows what the worker earns..

100~150k what a load.

[jpd80]

Take Toyota's case wher they have to drop $3,800/car in costs.
You would have to drop everyone's wages to Thailand's $9/day to match the alternative plant.

Ain't gonna happen.
Therefore in my opinion, there is nothing GM could do to make local production more profitable than importing vehicles.

What makes Commodore worthwhile is sales of value added versions, the +$40,000 variants as opposed to Omega/SV6.

[burnz]

just want to clear things up (more so that clown BOLT)

around 2300 workers.

$23.12 ph (factory floor assembly)
$90k pa salary (managerial) approx 75 employees.
160k pa salary ("specialist" G code, M code, mechanical engineer, architectural clay modelists) 7 employees.

[RANGEREST]

Nowhere did I say anyone should be on $13 per hr

Originally Posted by burnz

just want to clear things up (more so that clown BOLT)

around 2300 workers.

$23.12 ph (factory floor assembly)
$90k pa salary (managerial) approx 75 employees.
160k pa salary ("specialist" G code, M code, mechanical engineer, architectural clay modelists) 7 employees.

If this is correct, this thread has just become irrelevant.

[ford man xf]

Live this lifestyle and expect to pay higer taxes, it really is that simple.

[BHDOGS]

In solidarity and to bring prices down for good the rest of Australia has agreed to the same wage cuts lmao not.