Not good news for the Australian automotive industry

[Falcon Freak]

It does not matter if you are from the blue or red side, the early signs are not promising for the VE Commodore. This is not good news for all who are involved in local automotive industry:Article from Sydney Morning Herald 13th October 2006.

FF

[XR8putts]

Lets just hope people think the VE is ugly

[NA XR6]

Originally Posted by puts99

Lets just hope people think the VE is ugly

What do you mean think :

[GT290]

Originally Posted by puts99

Lets just hope people think the VE is ugly

its too executive for most I think. Saw one today and I don't know but I would not run out and get one. I fgor one can not wait for 2008 and ford release a new GT. I will be their waiting at the front door with the check book no worries.

[vztrt]

Yeah the large car market is struggling, the shift from 6cyl cars to 4cyl cars has been huge since the jump in fuel prices.

Holden has been very worried the last two weeks.

[XR Martin]

Petrol is still cheap in the ME, so im sure they'll just export more.
Unfortunatly, Ford Aus doesnt have that luxury.

[Falcon Freak]

Here is another version of the same article.

FF

[BlueJ]

75% of the article's content was about Holden losing fleet sales on the back of pricing VEs to attract private buyers, but there was nothing much made of private sales. So I guess VE sales to private buyers might be around where Holden would like it to be?

If fleet buyers aren't buying VEs, wouldn't they be buying Falcons, Camrys (Aurions) or 380s instead - so won't the 'lost' VE fleet sales stay in the Australian made sector?

I smiled at the comparison between the VE sales strategy and Ford's AU sales strategy...I suppose the Holden management gurus didn't enjoy reading that bit.

Personally I think the VE styling is a bit fussy around the headlights, the front wheelarches are too prominent from oblique views and the fender vents are pure w*nk. I guess many buyers won't look too much deeper than that, and the VE unique feature - 50/50 weight distribution - would be irrelevant to 99% of buyers, even if they knew what it meant. Or maybe I am just cynical.

[chich]

Meh - the sooner then better if you ask me. Ford and Holden have had more than enough time to improve the quality and reliability of their cars but instead they insist on polishing turds and calling them 'cars'. Get Mr Howard to remove the 55% luxury car tax and lets see what happens to the Australian automotive industry..

[Falcon Freak]

Chich you should be concerned as Holden's sales performance impacts you too.

FF

[chich]

Originally Posted by Falcon Freak

Chich you should be concerned as Holden's sales performance impacts you too.

FF

To be perfectly honest i really don't give a flying **** about Holdens or Fords sales performance. The easier the government makes it for me to get behind the wheel of an RS4, E55 or M3 the happier i am :eclipsee_

[Falcon Freak]

Originally Posted by chich

To be perfectly honest i really don't give a flying **** about Holdens or Fords sales performance. The easier the government makes it for me to get behind the wheel of an RS4, E55 or M3 the happier i am :eclipsee_

Government welfare payments won't get you behind the wheel of an RS4, E55 or M3 etc.

FF

[Orbit]

i honestly think the removal of the luxury car tax would be a godsend to competition...it would defintley have me considering a change to the euro's.
and i think it would do a lot to get the red and blue camps to really get serious about the product they produce or go home.

[chich]

Originally Posted by Falcon Freak

Government welfare payments won't get you behind the wheel of an RS4, E55 or M3 etc.

FF

Believe it or not other industries exist too..

[Mutley]

Originally Posted by chich

To be perfectly honest i really don't give a flying **** about Holdens or Fords sales performance. The easier the government makes it for me to get behind the wheel of an RS4, E55 or M3 the happier i am :eclipsee_

What criteria do you base your 'informed' appreciation of quality on. Coming from the bush, the reliability of Australian built sedans is equal to, if not better than imported cars.

You pedal a tired argument indeed. I've listened to arguments about how European quality exceeds Australian quality for over thirty years. Its just funny how you don't see any surviving 30 year old European specials that have had a hard life, but I don't think too many Australian cars of that era have escaped harsher treatment.

Perhaps if European cars were run new at the drags every weekend with a 50 - 200hp boost, left outside in the weather, flogged down gravel roads, used as hire cars or police cars, spent Saturday nights at illegal street drags instead of the under cover opera car park or their days at a suburban coles or woolies carpark instead of a heated carpark underneath the boardroom, they may look a little worse for wear after a couple of years!

I think if you look a little deeper into what constitutes quality, our cars are not as bad as you make out.

Originally Posted by Mutley

What criteria do you base your 'informed' appreciation of quality on. Coming from the bush, the reliability of Australian built sedans is equal to, if not better than imported cars.

You pedal a tired argument indeed. I've listened to arguments about how European quality exceeds Australian quality for over thirty years. Its just funny how you don't see any surviving 30 year old European specials that have had a hard life, but I don't think too many Australian cars of that era have escaped harsher treatment.

Perhaps if European cars were run new at the drags every weekend with a 50 - 200hp boost, left outside in the weather, flogged down gravel roads, used as hire cars or police cars, spent Saturday nights at illegal street drags instead of the under cover opera car park or their days at a suburban coles or woolies carpark instead of a heated carpark underneath the boardroom, they may look a little worse for wear after a couple of years!

I think if you look a little deeper into what constitutes quality, our cars are not as bad as you make out.

Thanks Mutley. I couldn't agree more.

How little some people know of what quality is really all about. Many things do go wrong on Mercs and BMW's that we will never hear about. Anything from driveline shunt on M5 to stability program failures amongst other gizmos that cark it.

[Outbackjack]

Originally Posted by Mutley

What criteria do you base your 'informed' appreciation of quality on. Coming from the bush, the reliability of Australian built sedans is equal to, if not better than imported cars.

You pedal a tired argument indeed. I've listened to arguments about how European quality exceeds Australian quality for over thirty years. Its just funny how you don't see any surviving 30 year old European specials that have had a hard life, but I don't think too many Australian cars of that era have escaped harsher treatment.

Perhaps if European cars were run new at the drags every weekend with a 50 - 200hp boost, left outside in the weather, flogged down gravel roads, used as hire cars or police cars, spent Saturday nights at illegal street drags instead of the under cover opera car park or their days at a suburban coles or woolies carpark instead of a heated carpark underneath the boardroom, they may look a little worse for wear after a couple of years!

I think if you look a little deeper into what constitutes quality, our cars are not as bad as you make out.

Well said Mutley. Some people just like to criticize anything that is Australian made. Probably the same people that buy californian oranges rather than Aussie oranges, if you get my drift.

Cheers.

[OzJavelin]

Originally Posted by Mutley

What criteria do you base your 'informed' appreciation of quality on. Coming from the bush, the reliability of Australian built sedans is equal to, if not better than imported cars.

You pedal a tired argument indeed. I've listened to arguments about how European quality exceeds Australian quality for over thirty years. Its just funny how you don't see any surviving 30 year old European specials that have had a hard life, but I don't think too many Australian cars of that era have escaped harsher treatment.

Perhaps if European cars were run new at the drags every weekend with a 50 - 200hp boost, left outside in the weather, flogged down gravel roads, used as hire cars or police cars, spent Saturday nights at illegal street drags instead of the under cover opera car park or their days at a suburban coles or woolies carpark instead of a heated carpark underneath the boardroom, they may look a little worse for wear after a couple of years!

I think if you look a little deeper into what constitutes quality, our cars are not as bad as you make out.

Sorry for being O/T but this seemed very, very true ...

You also forgot serviced by the cheapest mechanic only when the owner feels like it, run on the cheapest fuel, eventually converted to run on LPG, etc, etc, etc ...

The fact that we still see so many VN/EAs is a testament to Aussie cars being over-engineered in areas which count in THIS country .. where you can drive for hours-and-hours without seeing another person. If the door trims rattle or your leather stiching is cr@p this won't leave you stranded ..

[Veefore]

Originally Posted by Mutley

What criteria do you base your 'informed' appreciation of quality on. Coming from the bush, the reliability of Australian built sedans is equal to, if not better than imported cars.

You pedal a tired argument indeed. I've listened to arguments about how European quality exceeds Australian quality for over thirty years. Its just funny how you don't see any surviving 30 year old European specials that have had a hard life, but I don't think too many Australian cars of that era have escaped harsher treatment.

Perhaps if European cars were run new at the drags every weekend with a 50 - 200hp boost, left outside in the weather, flogged down gravel roads, used as hire cars or police cars, spent Saturday nights at illegal street drags instead of the under cover opera car park or their days at a suburban coles or woolies carpark instead of a heated carpark underneath the boardroom, they may look a little worse for wear after a couple of years!

I think if you look a little deeper into what constitutes quality, our cars are not as bad as you make out.

I only need to look at the two 10 year old cars parked outside my office. One is a BMW 325 and the other is a Falcon. The Falcon owner has spend FAR less on servicing and repairs over the last 3 years while the BMW owner has spent enough to buy a 10 year old falcon. The plastics and materials in the Falcon still look reasonable while the BMW interior looks 40 years old. After seeing the evidence I am starting to believe that the illusion of quality in the European cars may be just that, an illusion.

Originally Posted by chich

Meh - the sooner then better if you ask me. Ford and Holden have had more than enough time to improve the quality and reliability of their cars but instead they insist on polishing turds and calling them 'cars'. Get Mr Howard to remove the 55% luxury car tax and lets see what happens to the Australian automotive industry..

Where the hell did you get 55%??

[ClevlndStemer]

It is a sad thing to happen. Personally I think removing the tariffs on imports has also contributed to the decline of the Aussie large car. Ford and Holden need to bring a little more quality and value for money into their cars. They're not innovative enough with their flagship cars. I'd like to say i would get another falcon but i don't want to be burnt by crap quality again.

[chich]

Originally Posted by ClevlndStemer

It is a sad thing to happen. Personally I think removing the tariffs on imports has also contributed to the decline of the Aussie large car. Ford and Holden need to bring a little more quality and value for money into their cars. They're not innovative enough with their flagship cars. I'd like to say i would get another falcon but i don't want to be burnt by crap quality again.

I agree with your comments 110%. The tariff reduction has definitely contributed to the decline of the industry because other people - namely the Japanese - build much better cars for the same amount of coin. This being the case, peoples expectations are much higher these days (rightly so).

In my opinion there are 4 main areas where Aussies cars fall over - quality, reliability, resale and dealer support.

[lowriding]

Silly article imo .That story doesnt say much at all , only compares sales of one month against sales of the first month of VT in 1997. I dont think anyone was expecting the market share to jump back to what it was 10 years ago !

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by lowriding

Silly article imo .That story doesnt say much at all , only compares sales of one month against sales of the first month of VT in 1997. I dont think anyone was expecting the market share to jump back to what it was 10 years ago !

Well the Aussie car industry was expecting this as this has been the trend.

My mate is one of the warranty claim officers for Daimler Chrysler and it's funny how many quality issues these cars actually have. A lot are mechanical issues, oh and don't go near a A-class. One of the C-class cars he had for the weekend ate his CD in the 6-cd changer. While it is put together very well I wasn't that impressed as I'd rather change cars more regularly than pay the extra premium so the interior looks put together slightly better.

Bucket - the special edition is to combat the BFII. Holden announced the special edition when the VE was released.

[Spotty]

Originally Posted by ClevlndStemer

It is a sad thing to happen. Personally I think removing the tariffs on imports has also contributed to the decline of the Aussie large car. Ford and Holden need to bring a little more quality and value for money into their cars. They're not innovative enough with their flagship cars. I'd like to say i would get another falcon but i don't want to be burnt by crap quality again.

Ditto. After the appalling quality issues I had with my new 03 BA XR8, the attitude of the dealer and the disgraceful battle I had with ford head office AND the huge depreciation, I will NEVER EVER buy a new ford again. In the furure I may look at an older model as a project car but thats about it. Bought myself a new accord euro in june and couldnt be happier. Its got great build quality, good handling and performance, tons of room and the best thing is ....I no longer have to drive laround listening out for strange noises, clunks from the drive line, dodgy brakes or collect bits of interior plastic off the floor. The piece of mind alone has been worth the changeover.

[aualright]

Originally Posted by Spotty

Ditto. After the appalling quality issues I had with my new 03 BA XR8, the attitude of the dealer and the disgraceful battle I had with ford head office AND the huge depreciation, I will NEVER EVER buy a new ford again. In the furure I may look at an older model as a project car but thats about it. Bought myself a new accord euro in june and couldnt be happier. Its got great build quality, good handling and performance, tons of room and the best thing is ....I no longer have to drive laround listening out for strange noises, clunks from the drive line, dodgy brakes or collect bits of interior plastic off the floor. The piece of mind alone has been worth the changeover.

Do you have the box of tissues behind the backseat headrests too..??

[Spotty]

Originally Posted by aualright

Do you have the box of tissues behind the backseat headrests too..??

I did have until the headrest broke off and the tissues flew out the rear window after I hit a speed hump and the glass fell out. :

[chich]

Originally Posted by Spotty

Ditto. After the appalling quality issues I had with my new 03 BA XR8, the attitude of the dealer and the disgraceful battle I had with ford head office AND the huge depreciation, I will NEVER EVER buy a new ford again. In the furure I may look at an older model as a project car but thats about it. Bought myself a new accord euro in june and couldnt be happier. Its got great build quality, good handling and performance, tons of room and the best thing is ....I no longer have to drive laround listening out for strange noises, clunks from the drive line, dodgy brakes or collect bits of interior plastic off the floor. The piece of mind alone has been worth the changeover.

I've been waiting patiently for someone such as yourself to come along and add strength to my argument. Yet another happy Ford customer...

[LethalLeigh]

I heard that the fleet pricing jumped just after launch. It cost them a few customers in Adelaide, but I guess they want to make the cars more profitable. The question is, is it viable to try an produce cars at the quality of say BMW or Audi when the volume is nowhere near those manufacturers?

Edit: Fleet buyers are still out there, but they are hanging on to their vehicles for longer in the hope of some better pricing.

[Outbackjack]

One of the guys that I work with is going through the process of buying a new V8 VE. The fleet discount is pathetic. It's not like the car is worth it, compared to the XR8. For my self, the more I see of the VE the closer it looks to pig dog ugly. Maybe people just starting to think the same.