GM Sticks with Pushrods

[FGII-XR6]

Originally Posted by Nikked

But it is a great engine, and just like the LS series before it, it will be the crate motor of choice.


And OHC isn't modern...it's still 100 year old tech, its a stupid argument.

if you are going to quote me have the integrity to post completly and in context. I agreed that the crude OHC is older but went on to explain what type of development has gone into making it vastly superior.
partally quoting to make your point show how desperate you are to be right and how unethical you are.

Originally Posted by au3xr6

but it's not a "great engine" it is using technology long abandoned by the automotive community as antiquated and inefficent, I'm not against push rods in old school cars but this is the 21st century it is time to move on to modern technology.
sure crude OHC is older than OHV but OHC has been developed into something OHV could dream of it allows mulit valve and effective VVT . with OHC you can change inlet and outlet independantly , something not realistically acheivable with OHV engines. the only benifit I see with using tractor engines is size, yes they are smaller but is physical size worth the trade off?

[Bossxr8]

You have to laugh at the idea of using VVT on one camshaft though. Very crude.

[Deco28]

This engine will most likely get a large power bump when the offical figures are revealed. Expect upwards of 470hp and 470lbft.

[graham7773]

Regardless of anything else, Otto, Daimler and Benz had working twin overhead cam and 4 valves per cylinder engines in 1880. 132 years later we have twin overhead cam 4 valves (5 in some cases) per cylinder engines. Sure, the technology has changed in manufacturing but the idea is the same. I was thinking the quality may have been better back then as the work was done by hand, not by robots. Isn't it the same today? The very best cars are made by hand?

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

You have to laugh at the idea of using VVT on one camshaft though. Very crude.

Even though there is no independent timing of Inlets and exhaust events, DI and VCT still adds 50 lb ft
to the 6.2's botom end torque and around 25-30 lb ft in the upper rev range with cast iron exhausts.

That is a statement and a half - 450 hp and 450 lb ft with cast iron exhausts.....

Rather than considering theoretically which engine is better than which, maybe we should appreciate what is available
and what these engines do for our very good RWD cars here in Australia, a S/C DOHC 5.0 Vs DI VCT Pushrod 6.2?
Bring on the pub bench racing...

[Windsor220]

The only thing that may possibly hurt Holden here is that the younger crowd have moved away from NA V8s for a while now. Every thing is turbo imports and drifting. At least Ford still remains relevant with their boosted offerings. Eventually these people will filter through into new car buyers.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Windsor220

The only thing that may possibly hurt Holden here is that the younger crowd have moved away from NA V8s for a while now. Every thing is turbo imports and drifting. At least Ford still remains relevant with their boosted offerings. Eventually these people will filter through into new car buyers.

Production of turbo I-6 has fallen dramatically this year, Barraxr8 was indicating around 120/ month

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

You have to laugh at the idea of using VVT on one camshaft though. Very crude.

VCT XR6?

[Windsor220]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Production of turbo I-6 has fallen dramatically this year, Barraxr8 was indicating around 120/ month

I'm thinking more for the future. Majority of buyers would be from the GT era atm.

[mik]

fun can be had with either, but overhead cam has better valve control and more valves for better breathing, smoother? to me gm is playing catch up.....still,
they had 50 years to develop the v8, and in 15 years ford has developed the modular to where it is, i`d have a miami or coyote any day of the week, miami/coyote reminds me of another nice qaud cammer , the toyota 1uzfe.

[Sprint]

Ok im picking up on a vibe on a few things, correct me?.

1. People want a "Au style" FG falcon with a windsor(or simular single cam) that has increased port angles and simular motor to the LS1, better motor placement for cournering, instead of what we have now?.

2. Holden's would be **** if they change there motor to v8 dohc?

I do agree with comment that smaller motor can be good for better placement, also comments that simplier is "just as good" if it gets the job done!.

Charateristics of the dual overcam cams have not been discussed yet, like power delivery and increase rev range with dohc motors.

Im not just talking about the boss.

[Motorbreath310]

I still don't see what the problem is. It's a compact V8 that makes fairly decent power, is cheaper to manufacture AND maintain due to its simplicity and it's also relatively light and has huge aftermarket support.

I fail to see where the problem lies?

Shouldn't everyone here be happy that the Coyote/Miami that Ford uses has a far more complex and therefore superior design to its GM counterpart? And that it also utilises forced induction which apparently makes it more "relevant"?

It's almost as if we've exchanged Ford vs Holden for car enthusiasts vs fashion police.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Windsor220

I'm thinking more for the future. Majority of buyers would be from the GT era atm.

I'm thinking the falls with XR6T and G6ET as well as a lot of F6 are permanent losses.

[BHDOGS]

so holdens engine is the toyota of engines its reliable cheap and anybody can afford one but it works seems to make sense to me

[STINKY NINJA]

People want a car that looks like a te50,has a 500hp pushrod windsor and eats hsv,s for dinner,all in a $40,000 package that weighs 1400kg
And the gt version will be supercharged

[Nikked]

Alloy 351 windsor, with DI...hell yeah!

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Nikked

VCT XR6?

14 years ago

And Fords VCT has gone through 2 generations since then. GM have really come kicking and screaming into the 90's

And it didn't have a cam in block either.

But in saying that it does make good numbers, but in reality the 335 will still leave it for dead. I'll bet the next HSV's still won't be able to get into the 4's.

[Madaya]

Gees, so we are still talking about OHV and OHC - they are both dinosaurs. On a side note, whats the problem with iron blocks? Of all the components of a reciprocating engine, the iron block has proved to be extremely reliable and servicable, easy to manufacture and modify. Err, in a shortwhile, we'll have electric (or some, as yet, unthought of type of) motors winning Le Mans and GP's (and all the traffic light drags).

[Bossxr8]

The only downside to cast iron is weight.

Its strong, easy to make and cheap, just heavy.

[MethodX]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

14 years ago

And Fords VCT has gone through 2 generations since then. GM have really come kicking and screaming into the 90's

And it didn't have a cam in block either.

But in saying that it does make good numbers, but in reality the 335 will still leave it for dead. I'll bet the next HSV's still won't be able to get into the 4's.

GM had the Cadillac northstar, Olds Aurora
And the dohc 4 valve per cylinder V8 in the corvette in the early 90's.
Not to mention the OHC six in the firebird in the 60's.

I remember Euro car fans saying the same thing in the late 70's and 80's about Ford gt's and mustangs.
Have Ford fans turned into latte sipper GTI drivers.

[mik]

Originally Posted by BHDOGS

so holdens engine is the toyota of engines its reliable cheap and anybody can afford one but it works seems to make sense to me

It remains to be seen if whether it will be reliable or not, time will tell, as for the toyota of engines, you don`t think toyota has had it`s share of engine problems over the years?

[FPV GTHO]

Originally Posted by smoo

Probably because it took Ford nearly 10 years to iron out all the problems of the modular V8s, timing chain, spark plugs, valve burn, while getting a good serving from the sbc on the performance and aftermarket side, if it's not broken dont fix it

Sounds like an excuse for why Ford would be behind, I don't get your reasoning.

[ebxr8240]

Originally Posted by au3xr6

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the coyote an all alloy engine?

I was referring to the Boss 5.4...