RACV push for P-Plate passenger restrictions

[MITCHAY]

Originally Posted by Polyal

You mean just the same as the majority of other laws we have?

True :

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

True :

Unfortunately its all for the lowest common denominator, which seems to be getting lower and lower :togo:

[MITCHAY]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Unfortunately its all for the lowest common denominator, which seems to be getting lower and lower :togo:

Unfortunately that is the case :(

[sleekism]

Originally Posted by Squalo

Sleekism, I'm afraid you've not made any points whatsoever here. While I feel for you - the laws were not created to stop you driving your classic, you're just collateral damage - you really do need to have a good long look at your attitude. Norm pretty much summed it up - the current generation has it so much better than any preceeding generations it's not funny - certainly it's not funny when they are complaining.

The laws are - as they have always been - about keeping people alive. Those of you here who are immortal obviously struggle to assimilate this information. But those of you who survive through to parenthood will understand.

A task for you - print this (and the other related) topic out, and put it somewhere safe, where you can access it in 20 years. Then marvel at your attitude.

I don't know what fantasy world you live in but my parents told me specifically that things were better when they were teenagers . My mum made more at 16 working in a chicken factory than she does now as a nurse. My dad as a builders labourer was able to support a whole family, buy a huge propert for 30 grand and still afford half a dozen motorbikes and three cars.

If these laws are about keeping people alive then where is the evidence????

Where is the correlation between V8's and p plater accidents??

The accidents you see in the paper are usually low powered Commodores and Camrys!

I believe there should be driver training just like when I got my motorbike licence. Me and all my mates and missus who I taught to ride and drive have NEVER had an accident!

These laws are about appeasing whinging old bastards. I would just like them to do something constructive!

[sleekism]

Oh BTW I'm off my P's in a few months so these laws will hardly affect me but unlike many people here I care about people other than myself.

I have a little brother who will be getting his P's soon and knowing this I have tried to teach him as much as I can driving in the quarry and around town. I think a lot of the responsibility falls on the parents for not teaching their kids properly. I have a mate who was an absolutely shocker even though his mum was an RTA tester of a driver already in two accidents within months of getting his P's but I took it upon myself to show him how to drive on the limit and be aware of HOW the car works and the physics involved such as the effects of braking hard in a corner and the effects of weight transfer on grip. He still is a hoon of a driver but the difference is that he is not crashing and that is with sitting at 180 for hours straight with a car shaking itself to bits.

I'm not trying to beat my own chest I'm trying to simply express how with proper training the car will shrink around you and become more connected to you. I got my motorbike licence at 16 before my car licence and I felt that the lessons in braking and "buffer zones" helped enourmously when I subsequently got my car licence.

I also felt that paddock bashing as a kid helped heaps.
I remember as a kid the first time I drove a car I did not feel a strong connection between what I did and the response from the car. Kind of like driving a boat. Eventually the more I drove it became like second nature and the car seemed to shrink around me. For a while I even used to drive a lot with all the windows down even in the cold as it gave me a better relationship with the vehicle.

Thats what I feel the main problem is: that the current system simplifies the car too much they express it like it is a simple machine with a few controls. They don't even highlight the difference between RWD and FWD cars. It is VERY EASY to get even a modern RWD car with traction control sideways in the wet.

I think the system should simply parallel the motorbike system:

L's: First complete weekend driver training course.
Complete computer knowledge test at RTA
L's valid for 3 months, limited to 80 kays with full licence holder present.

P's: Complete weekend P's driver training course
Complete computer knowledge test
Licence valid for 1 year, limited to 90 kays and 150kw/tonne cars.

Full: If you have completed one whole year without infringement you tick over to full
licence with all the priveleges.


This would be a simple solution none of that other knee jerk bullsh*t the are pulling.

The RTA are only doing this to make it look like they are doing something. I have worked for the RTA they are horribly inefficient, top heavy and over-beuracratic. They are practically drowning in their own paperwork they are so weighed down that it will literally take them an hour to send a simple e-mail.

[Polyal]

Instead of crying here, perhaps email it to the RTA, they might care a little more.

Probably not though, you will be greeted with an auto-reply.

[Hybrid34]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Instead of crying here, perhaps email it to the RTA, they might care a little more.

Probably not though, you will be greeted with an auto-reply.

Mate its not about crying, grow up, its an issue and topic that involves alot of P-platers, and this so happens to be a car forum, it looks like alot of people have commented on their thoughts negative and positive, if you don't like reading this stuff, don't click onthe thread...

[Van D]

Originally Posted by DOC

Quite simply if that car was not parked up in a quiet spot with some quality company, you were one of the bored people driving around with half a dozen beer smellin hombrais all wishing the you were in the parked car.

this one passenger stuff would be working big time for me and in my favour, be no way id be complaining, your just not looking at it the right way

Mate, i'd love it to be that way these days, but us young kids just won't have it this way. I'm all for going for a slow cruise in the XT and just enjoying it, chilling out with 6 mates in the car somewhere (or even driving to the peninsula to go to the drive ins!).. But 95% of P platers think that's "fully gay".

The times, they are a changin'!

[TEaaron]

I simply make my P plates hard to see, put them down real low.

I never get pulled over even though my car is way over the legal db limet.
I'm definatly no saint on the road I just know when a right time to open it up is.

These new laws are stupid. I can't see how some of you compare the time you spent on your P's 25 years ago to the restrictions we have now.

The other day I was cruising with my mate I wasn't wearing my P's he was..

An police car began to follow us.

Who does he pull over?

The lowerd car with rims, loud exhaust (me)

or my mate in his completly stock ford laser wearing P plates?

Well they pulled him over for a "random licance check" then tried to defect his car for get this.. electric antenna not working.

This whole don't drive like an idiot and you won't get pulled over thing is bull

Don't drive with P plates and you won't get pulled over is more like it.



Back closer to topic though...
I'm not saying there should be no P plate restrictions but these new ones are ridiculous.

Power to weight.. they should have left it.

Too little thought has been put into these new laws and it's just revenue raising.
Driving an old 253 holden can get you a $1000+ fine because it has 8cyls but driving a 182kw Ba falcon is acceptable?

Now restricting passengers? pfft
That is going to cause more bad than good.

[sleekism]

Originally Posted by TEaaron

I simply make my P plates hard to see, put them down real low.

I never get pulled over even though my car is way over the legal db limet.
I'm definatly no saint on the road I just know when a right time to open it up is.

These new laws are stupid. I can't see how some of you compare the time you spent on your P's 25 years ago to the restrictions we have now.

The other day I was cruising with my mate I wasn't wearing my P's he was..

An police car began to follow us.

Who does he pull over?

The lowerd car with rims, loud exhaust (me)

or my mate in his completly stock ford laser wearing P plates?

Well they pulled him over for a "random licance check" then tried to defect his car for get this.. electric antenna not working.

This whole don't drive like an idiot and you won't get pulled over thing is bull

Don't drive with P plates and you won't get pulled over is more like it.



Back closer to topic though...
I'm not saying there should be no P plate restrictions but these new ones are ridiculous.

Power to weight.. they should have left it.

Too little thought has been put into these new laws and it's just revenue raising.
Driving an old 253 holden can get you a $1000+ fine because it has 8cyls but driving a 182kw Ba falcon is acceptable?

Now restricting passengers? pfft
That is going to cause more bad than good.

Amen to that!

Half the time I just don't wear them as I am sick of being followed by cops! I will be driving and there will be full licenced drivers with hotted ricers but who do they follow?? The p plater in the visually stock AU.

Not to mention being searched for drugs. I was drinking at a mates and went outside to get some more grog out of the car I didn't even have my keys and these cops came out of nowhere accusing me of drink driving. They yelled at me heaps, searched every nook and cranny, confiscated my cap gun, made me go find my keys to confiscate and then yelled some more. I had to bloody walk to the cop shop the next day to go get my keys and when I got there they said the officer who took my keys wasn't working today so I will have to wait another day!!

A mate had his car drug searched and defected for stupid things like dirty numberplate. There excuse for drug searching??? They had reports of a white Commodore with drugs and he just happened to be driving one of those rare white commodores.

[cuz]

Heres my 2 cents...

I think that passenger limits are a great idea and will save hundreds of lives, now and into the future.
Why? Simple. Because young people die on the roads, thats a fact.
Why? Simple. Bugger all driving experience.
Drivers of all ages die on the roads, it can't ever be stopped. But it can be contained to certain extents...

Now, just to let you know where I'm coming from...
I lived the first 19 yrs of my life in New Zealand, where you have a lot stricter P-plate laws than here. Zero-alcohol, 10pm - 5am curfew and passenger limits.
All put in place just to p1ss young drivers off...NOT!
All these laws are put in place to try to save and protect our most valuable resource, our youth. Every time I see 'another P-plate' death, it really makes me sad. I feel for the family or families of the victims. It also remind me of lots of my friend who also died young on the roads.
Yes, thats right. Even with all those restrictive laws in NZ, young people still died on the road. The only difference that I can see now, as I was having trouble at the time, was the other lives those laws saved.
Next time you see one of these deaths on tv, where 2/3 or more young fellas died in a wreck, sit back and ask yourself: "What if it was only the driver in the car? Would those others still be alive?" or more importantly: " How would I feel if it was my child?"

Do you see what I'm trying to get at?
Don't be so bloody selfish as to assume you are the only person who will be affected by you actions on the road. How will you feel if you kill some of your mates? Wether its your fault or not, you gotta live with it for the rest of your life. Put yourself in the Police officers shoes as they go to your mates house to tell their parents what has happened. What if you had to tell them? Think of your Mum & Dad getting told. Do these laws sound as bad as that?


I believe that passenger limits and compulsory driver experience are the only real effective ways to lower the road toll of younger drivers. Make the passenger limits realistic too tho.
Maybe instead of no passengers after 11pm, make it, no passengers after 11pm unless accompanied by an sober adult who has held their full licence for min. 2 yrs in the passengers seat.
Make 'hands on' driver education courses compulsory to all learners and/or P-plate drivers. Drive days at a race track, where all the roads potential disasters can be taken into account and learnt from.

Don't see more P-plate laws as another way to 'pick' on younger drivers, see them as a pain in the neck for a couple of years till you get you full licence. Then you can do what you like, right?

Just my 2 cents...

[savagE]

Cuz351... Do you want all of us P platers to go out drinking and drive home then?
No real P platers go out after 11pm unless it is because of someone being a designated driver. This new rule has already affected me and my mates as of now, a lot of us have to take 1 car to every 1 person, this is stupid considering how far out some of us live.

PS. We already have the zero alcohol limit.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by savagE

Cuz351... Do you want all of us P platers to go out drinking and drive home then?
No real P platers go out after 11pm unless it is because of someone being a designated driver. This new rule has already affected me and my mates as of now, a lot of us have to take 1 car to every 1 person, this is stupid considering how far out some of us live.

PS. We already have the zero alcohol limit.

Are you suggesting p platers can't control themselves and will drink drive? Have you heard of taxi's? divide the fare by 3 or 4 would probably be cheaper than petrol money.. Ever heard of abstinance from drinking if there's no other alternative to driving yourself?

[cuz]

Originally Posted by savagE

Cuz351... Do you want all of us P platers to go out drinking and drive home then?
No real P platers go out after 11pm unless it is because of someone being a designated driver. This new rule has already affected me and my mates as of now, a lot of us have to take 1 car to every 1 person, this is stupid considering how far out some of us live.

PS. We already have the zero alcohol limit.

Yes, I would love for you to do that! : : : Try this: TAXI!!!!

Are you for real?? How affected can you possibly be?? Is it terminal???
What colour is the sky in your world??

You obiviously don't need alcohol... maybe they should have a zero moron limit instead. : : :

[Van D]

Originally Posted by cuz351

Yes, I would love for you to do that! : : : Try this: TAXI!!!!

Only problem with that is it costs me over $100 to get into/out of the city by taxi. I'd rather spend that on other things!

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Van D

Only problem with that is it costs me over $100 to get into/out of the city by taxi. I'd rather spend that on other things!

So if there's 4 of you that's only $25 each... parking in the city is probably $15-20 alone... Lilydale to the city is probably $15-20 in fuel too..
Or you could hang out in ringwood... Ok.. city it is!

[savagE]

If I was to get a taxi in and out. It would cost me about $200-300.

As far as I am concerned, you watch too much ACA. Go out and listen and watch some P platers and not those on TV, we aren't all lebs who wanna do those full heckit things.
Me and my friends when going out just go back home and don't do anything stupid.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by savagE

If I was to get a taxi in and out. It would cost me about $200-300.

As far as I am concerned, you watch too much ACA. Go out and listen and watch some P platers and not those on TV, we aren't all lebs who wanna do those full heckit things.
Me and my friends when going out just go back home and don't do anything stupid.

Where the hell do you live? you need to move closer to civilisation!

I was a P Plater once. and i drive on average 40,000 k's a year, and allot at night, i think im as qualified as anyone to comment on P Plate driver behaviour...

It never ceases to amaze me the number of people with such strong opinions about topics they have virtually zero experience with.. i.e the people either currently or going to be effected by these rules.

Id say Its more than a co-incidence that older people who have the benefit of being a p plater once and many years driving experience amongst p platers seem to be at ods with allot of you?
I agree the majority p platers are good responsible drivers, unfortunatly the bad eggs wreck it for everyone, but with so many things its impossible to develop rules that only single the bad ones out, so everyone just has to cop it till they're a bit older..

My advice is BLAME THE FOOLS, Not BLAME THE RULES!

[Van D]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

So if there's 4 of you that's only $25 each... parking in the city is probably $15-20 alone... Lilydale to the city is probably $15-20 in fuel too..
Or you could hang out in ringwood... Ok.. city it is!

It's actually free on the weekend at most spots, unless you go undercover parking where it's about $7-13. It's also only about $5-10 in petrol (highway/freeway most of the way). I'd much rather split $20-25 between four people than at least 25 each. Also, not all my mates live around this area, some nights when I go out with certain groups i'd find myself the only one in the taxi after camberwell.

Lastly, with a deso you can make the trip home a bit of fun. Stop at maccas for a while, go to skateparks and muck around etc.

I have caught the taxi home a couple times, and it's the worst part of the night usually (and 90% of them are perves if you have ladies with you).

[Van D]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Where the hell do you live? you need to move closer to civilisation!

It'd cost me the same if I was to catch a taxi in as well. Not everyone has public transport to get in there in the first place.

[cuz]

Your first post:

Originally Posted by savagE

Cuz351... Do you want all of us P platers to go out drinking and drive home then?
No real P platers go out after 11pm unless it is because of someone being a designated driver. This new rule has already affected me and my mates as of now, a lot of us have to take 1 car to every 1 person, this is stupid considering how far out some of us live.

PS. We already have the zero alcohol limit.

Then this one:

Originally Posted by savagE

If I was to get a taxi in and out. It would cost me about $200-300.

As far as I am concerned, you watch too much ACA. Go out and listen and watch some P platers and not those on TV, we aren't all lebs who wanna do those full heckit things.
Me and my friends when going out just go back home and don't do anything stupid.

So what are you telling us?
Why complain that its affected you, when you claim you don't do anything?
If it would cost you $200-300 to go in and back in a taxi, how much does it cost to drive there and back in your car to do nothing?? : :
Or is it a case of your just driving your car to show off??
If your not like the winners on ACA, then whats the problem??

Maybe save your $$$, stay at home and have a think....

[cuz]

Originally Posted by Van D

Lastly, with a deso you can make the trip home a bit of fun. Stop at maccas for a while, go to skateparks and muck around etc.

...yell at the girls walking, bit of a 'launch' off the lights, bit of a drift, bit of a tree in the car.....

[XCSEDAN]

Originally Posted by Van D

Lastly, with a deso you can make the trip home a bit of fun. Stop at maccas for a while, go to skateparks and muck around etc.

i agree thats a LOT of fun, maccas at 5am gotta love it!

cuz351, not everyone is into drifting doing burnouts etc, when we do the things above we just chill out at the end of the night, maccas, screw round at the skatepark, talk bout who picked up, who didnt blah blah blah all in good fun mate

[cuz]

Originally Posted by XCSEDAN

i agree thats a LOT of fun, maccas at 5am gotta love it!

cuz351, not everyone is into drifting doing burnouts etc, when we do the things above we just chill out at the end of the night, maccas, screw round at the skatepark, talk bout who picked up, who didnt blah blah blah all in good fun mate

Not saying you don't. Its just how stuff goes, I've seen it before.

Nobody ever went out looking to have a great night with mates, topped off by crashing into a solid object. It just happens and most are accidents.
If those accidents involving younger people can be contained by limiting the number of people in the car, why is that bad??

[Van D]

Originally Posted by cuz351

...yell at the girls walking, bit of a 'launch' off the lights, bit of a drift, bit of a tree in the car.....

Sorry mate, but me or my friends would never do that (virtually none of my other mates are even into cars). We do yell out the window at everyone though, not just the ladies. That's always a laugh. There are idiots that will though (been there done that).

And 5am maccas runs are the best. We've got a thing where we always say "2 cheesey's, thanks" in the most arrogant, smarmiest way to who evers working there, bit of a tradition lol.

The only problem with these laws is that although they're limiting people in the cars.. They're putting more cars on the road.

I've been in the situation before more than once, two or more desso's now being egg'd on by drunk passengers doesn't make anything better.

[sleekism]

mmmmmmmmmm 1 pounder at maccas at 2am.......

[cuz]

Originally Posted by Van D

Sorry mate, but me or my friends would never do that (virtually none of my other mates are even into cars). We do yell out the window at everyone though, not just the ladies. That's always a laugh. There are idiots that will though (been there done that).

And 5am maccas runs are the best. We've got a thing where we always say "2 cheesey's, thanks" in the most arrogant, smarmiest way to who evers working there, bit of a tradition lol.

The only problem with these laws is that although they're limiting people in the cars.. They're putting more cars on the road.

I've been in the situation before more than once, two or more desso's now being egg'd on by drunk passengers doesn't make anything better.

I'm never said that you or your mates do!
I know its a case of a couple of bad apples spoiling the bunch but thats the way its always been. Its the same way with everything in life, until you can learn and experience it enough until your confident to do it by yourself, then you have to put up with rules and limitations. Both put in place by people who have been there and done that and KNOW better.
Mate, I envy the freedom of P-platers over here. We had a 10pm till 5am curfew, fullstop, end of story. How much forking fun do you reckon that was? I too lived out of town. I too had mates who wanted to party all night. I too bitched about it to no end, but I now know what it was all about.

And yes, I do agree that driver education and training is paramount to saving lives. Without it, all the other rules, regulationa and laws are useless.

[savagE]

Originally Posted by cuz351

So what are you telling us?
Why complain that its affected you, when you claim you don't do anything?
If it would cost you $200-300 to go in and back in a taxi, how much does it cost to drive there and back in your car to do nothing?? : :
Or is it a case of your just driving your car to show off??
If your not like the winners on ACA, then whats the problem??

Maybe save your $$$, stay at home and have a think....

When did I claim I don't do much? I said there ain't many P platers out after 11pm and if there are, you will find the majority will be designated drivers? What is so hard to understand.
Me and my mates like to go to the RSL and have a good time without the need to shovel out a fist full of cash.

Reference to the ACA: You are led to beleive that P platers are scum/lebos.

The fact it that we do the right thing, don't believe everything you hear on TV and talk to a P plater, minority wrecked it for the rest of us. Like I have done driver safety courses and live out on dangerous single lane roads for 12km, I know the definition of dangerous (semi's aren't fun).
Think back to when you were a P plater and think to yourself how you would react to these laws. I get more full licensed drivers tailgating than I do P platers, we aren't the beez knee's but give us at least some respect.

[cuz]

Originally Posted by savagE

When did I claim I don't do much? I said there ain't many P platers out after 11pm and if there are, you will find the majority will be designated drivers? What is so hard to understand.
Me and my mates like to go to the RSL and have a good time without the need to shovel out a fist full of cash.

Reference to the ACA: You are led to beleive that P platers are scum/lebos.

The fact it that we do the right thing, don't believe everything you hear on TV and talk to a P plater, minority wrecked it for the rest of us. Like I have done driver safety courses and live out on dangerous single lane roads for 12km, I know the definition of dangerous (semi's aren't fun).
Think back to when you were a P plater and think to yourself how you would react to these laws. I get more full licensed drivers tailgating than I do P platers, we aren't the beez knee's but give us at least some respect.

Righto. Firstly, I don't have a problem with designated drivers. Me and my mates took turns at it. If you look at the statistics on P-plate road toll death, what time of the day/night do most fatalities occur? How many of those have more than one occupant in the car? There is some food for thought....
Secondly, whats with you and Lebanese people??
Thirdly, I am well aware that the minority has wrecked it for you all. It wasn't me, its probably someone you know of. Why don't you tell them what they're doing is dumb and see how it goes?
And last of all, I do remember back to when I was a P-plater, and I was goverened by a cr.ap load more rules than you were. I just hope that you all can look back to when you were P-platers and see for yourself what all the fuss was about.