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The Pub For General Automotive Related Talk |
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22-08-2014, 10:29 PM | #121 | ||
Boss 335
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,330
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Actually who is the clown who invented FWD. Surely putting the engine in the rear would be less complex as no steering involved, shorter fuel lines, shorter exhaust pipes and less power loss?
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23-08-2014, 11:34 AM | #123 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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23-08-2014, 11:45 AM | #124 | |||
Peter Car
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23-08-2014, 12:14 PM | #125 | ||
Au Falcon = Mr Reliable
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: North West Slopes & Plains NSW
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Boson was commenting on Sportivo, so standard Aurions got it - "the adoption of electric power steering – mounted to the steering column to improve feel – enabled Toyota to reduce parking steering effort while providing a heavier, more direct feel when travelling at speed" (from GO Auto).
I wasnt sure 100% the TRD got it, though they have the same steering rack. cheers, Maka
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Ford AU Series Magazine Scans Here - www.fordforums.com.au/photos/index.php?cat=2792 Proud owner of a optioned keeper S1 Tickford Falcon AU XR6 VCT - "it's actually a better-balanced car than the XR8, goes almost as hard and uses about two-thirds of the fuel" (Drive.com 2007) |
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23-08-2014, 06:16 PM | #126 | ||
Thailand Specials
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Centrefold Lounge
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I believe Zilo has a 380 making decent power at and around 700nm at the front wheels.
Last edited by Franco Cozzo; 23-08-2014 at 06:23 PM. |
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24-08-2014, 02:26 PM | #127 | ||
Banned
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24-08-2014, 05:07 PM | #129 | ||
re
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Victoria - where being slow & incompetent is considered being "safe"
Posts: 1,323
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We need FWD's - they made Toyota MR2's, Pontiac Fiero's, Fiat X1/9's, Lotus Elise/Exige & Lotus Evora's economically viable.
(As a former owner of FWD and RWD cars there is nothing wrong with a properly developed small FWD car. I once knew a guy who got out of his RWD V8 Lexus IS-F to get back in to his previous TRD Aurion)
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24-08-2014, 05:20 PM | #130 | ||
Boss 335
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24-08-2014, 07:34 PM | #131 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unsafe_at_Any_Speed
In essence, the first generation Corvair had tricky handling which some claimed made it more likely to be crashed. GM copped a lot of lawsuits over said crashes (over 100). |
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25-08-2014, 11:05 AM | #132 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Clown? surely your just stirring
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25-08-2014, 11:38 AM | #133 | ||
Call me 'Al'
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FWD became more popular in the 70s and 80s as there was a push to make smaller, more compact cars. Or so I understand from some book I read back then. I think it was called What Car? or something like that. Rumour has it they weren't originally intended for optimum performance.
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25-08-2014, 12:29 PM | #134 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Liberates more interior space Lighter construction Cheaper construction More fuel efficient. Rear wheel drive doesn't really offer many advantages over FWD at all, except they make for a superior driver/performance car. (all other things being equal) |
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25-08-2014, 12:47 PM | #135 | ||
Ich bin ein auslander
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The original Mini in 1959 really was the pioneer of the modern FWD system, the format gave the ability to use so much more interior space and make the external dimensions so much smaller. The Mini took it even further than modern FWD in that the transmission was integral to the crankcase of the engine.
Interestingly the Mini went on to have giant killing performance and handling due to low mass, low C of G and a wide track. So much for the idea that no FWD has good handling.
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26-08-2014, 12:46 AM | #136 | |||
BANNED
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I can get up and down at Mt Hotham in my FWD without chains on, in the Ford on the way down, the front wheels just lockup right away and no steering...bang...straight into the guard rail. |
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26-08-2014, 01:09 AM | #137 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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26-08-2014, 05:41 AM | #138 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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26-08-2014, 08:29 AM | #139 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Last edited by SumoDog68; 24-11-2014 at 07:35 PM. |
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26-08-2014, 08:52 AM | #140 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Technically the 4s is awd not rwd
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26-08-2014, 08:54 AM | #141 | |||
Regular Member
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Posts: 86
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In your 380 you're left behind (I speak from experience my wife owned one from new in 2005, was a brilliant car but I was well aware of its shortcomings)... Anyone wanting to doubt this should think about a FWD trying to tow a boat up a mossy, slippery ramp or driving up a steep hill and going around a roundabout with said trailer behind. Up until very recently you couldn't put any more than around 150-170KW/Tonne powerloading through a well sorted FWD system before you started running to the edge of adhesion issues with the tyres. Modern Stability and Traction systems have alieviated much of this - see the latest GTI for a well thought out front end when driven hard against the Type R, but they cannot completely eliminate weight transfer. Your 380 putting 700nm through the front end sounds great (what rods are you running?) but don't kid yourself, in very fast cornering with a (real) mid corner upset, you're heading bush in the 380 unless you've come up with a brilliant new traction control system for it or are running AWD or at least -3 deg Neg camber and running slicks... The moment you distort that contact patch of your front tyres you're fighting a losing battle to regain it and put power down at the same time through the one axle group. They are a great all round car for everyday Joe - I gotta be honest the 380 was well ahead of the NA 6 BF falcon in most things including build quality, refinement, general handling and a sweet sweet donk etc but pushed hard the pendulum swings towards RWD for tractability, ease of power delivery and general predictability when pushed hard. I am well aware of arguments for and against but the biggest comparison of the point I can come up with is compare our V8 supercars to the British Touring cars. Small(er) hp works better through front wheels, bigger car/bigger output it needs to drive the rear to get power down well. Last edited by Taily; 26-08-2014 at 09:04 AM. |
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26-08-2014, 03:24 PM | #142 | |||||||||||||
BANNED
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taily don't take any of this personally...
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Nothing further to setup mate. Driving wheels can't lockup, whether uphill or downhill steering integrity kept. On a RWD downhill you have to use the handbrake to stop else the front wheels lockup and it's all over. Have you ever done any snow driving? Quote:
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You were about 8 years old then? Quote:
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Not my 380 matey. I have 270kw@710Nm at the wheels . Quote:
I launch a Stabicraft 593HT with my FWD sedan. No problems, and what's this about roundabouts? Is your experience with a FWD 1986 Holden Camira? Quote:
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As I have said FWD you see the tree coming, RWD you dont know what hit you, but both lose control and hit the tree with certain drivers. You're not suggesting that RWD is safer?...surely you jest? Quote:
Custom SPS pistons 8.5CR nitrided crank...etc Really not your average FWD mate, 270kw@710nM at the wheels. So not surprising I find some of your comments...funny... Quote:
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But they both share one important feature...noone wants to buy them so they will both just be memories soon... Even though it's a Ford forum it's unfortunately a fact of life. Last edited by zilo; 26-08-2014 at 03:30 PM. |
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26-08-2014, 05:48 PM | #143 | ||||||||||
Regular Member
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[QUOTE=zilo;5196709]taily don't take any of this personally... [quote]
Well I did write my post being respectful of the "play the ball, not the man" ethos but obviously it got a little difficult for you when someone dared actually call you on some aspects of what you wrote... Quote:
I was expanding a point. Obviously that was lost on you. Quote:
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I never asked you to drop your dacks but since you mentioned it my wife's tuned and kitted XR50T pushes out more (not much more, but enough) than that - also, at the wheels. I have no idea what my old ute pushes out yet but it shows her a clean rear end in a straight line. Not biting apart from how and what would you like verified? Quote:
No, not biting, suffice to say been involved in enough motorsport and modding cars even through my previous line of work I walked away from 20 years ago. I've never bothered to count my trophies though. Quote:
Probably the safest car I ever owned would be an R32 I owned from new until early last year. Glad to see it go though, I earn good coin but there was no man alive that would put up with its continued drain on his wallet the way it did to mine. Quote:
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One to two for you too: Development test units and agreeing to some R+D for certain OEM suppliers... Quote:
Last edited by Taily; 26-08-2014 at 05:56 PM. |
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26-08-2014, 06:06 PM | #144 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Personally, I would rather cruise around in a XR6T or almost any other Ford than a hotted up Camry. It may be a better car than a Falcon but it has ZERO street presence & is about as exciting as dating a 60 year old nun.
Just because its a better car doesn't make it the better car.
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26-08-2014, 06:50 PM | #145 | |||
Regular Member
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Location: Perth
Posts: 141
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But it wasn't that standard. "Much of the car’s hardware came from one of Frank Gardner’s previous employers, Lola, in the form of Lola T332 running gear." Basically they looked at all the cars on the market and found one that their openwheeler running gear would sorta fit under. http://www.motorsportarchive.com/fra...ev_corvair.htm Off topic but cool
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26-08-2014, 07:56 PM | #146 | ||
born to be mild
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Pretty sad that this thread has turned into a **** fight
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26-08-2014, 07:58 PM | #147 | ||
Ich bin ein auslander
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Just about every thread referring to any FWD car does here.
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26-08-2014, 09:50 PM | #148 | |||
BANNED
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All I said was " FWD cars are also safer in cold climates, in snow and ice countries such as the US and europe, the steered wheels cant lock up as they do in a RWD car. I can get up and down at Mt Hotham in my FWD without chains on, in the Ford on the way down, the front wheels just lockup right away and no steering...bang...straight into the guard rail. " You agree don't you? |
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26-08-2014, 11:00 PM | #149 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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According to Wheels, BF XT 4 Speed clocked 7.5 seconds 0-100 and 15.3 seconds 0-400m. 380 Series III ES 5-speed auto clocked 7.6 seconds 0-100. I didn't know a near dead-heat constitutes a 'flog' ... BF Falcon XT has a 15kW and 40Nm advantage over the 380 Series III ES and weighs only 29kg more. Wheels also compared the 380 VRX with the BFII XR6 and VE SV6, and found the XR6 and SV6 to be dynamically superior to the 380.
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Current car: 2016 Ford MD Mondeo Titanium EcoBoost (2016-) Previous cars: 2005 Ford BF Fairmont (2006-2019) 1989 Ford EA Falcon GL (2000-2007) 1982 Ford KA Laser Ghia (1999-2000) Last edited by NX74205; 26-08-2014 at 11:06 PM. |
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26-08-2014, 11:18 PM | #150 | ||
335 - STILL THE BOSS ...
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XR6T wins ......... there you go! End of debate
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