Found some cheap Brembos lately?

[Shonky.]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

People unknowingly risk their life with cheap crappy Chinese tyres which have spread across Australia's tyre shops like AIDS, so why would brakes be any different?

Who here has a road driven car which can use these Chinese knock-offs?

I would reject that they unknowingly take the risk.

If you put a Tyre on you've never heard of that's one thing, but if you bought a fake Michelin Pilot Sport on, thinking you were buying a known product, then that would be a fair comparison

Originally Posted by zilo

So what, my next door neighbours camry with hand painted red calipers has worked for 9 years without failing too.

I would bet my money on Toyota engineering to do the job it's designed to do for 9 years no worries. The fact that some assclown has painted them red makes no difference

Honestly, the points raised in this thread get dumber and dumber by the day.

Why are people struggling with this so much?

I take the point that this may not be a counterfeiting outfit, would be keen to know if someone has any facts on that, but taken at face value, assuming they are counterfeit, I don't know how people can defend that conduct

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Shonky.

I would reject that they unknowingly take the risk.

If you put a Tyre on you've never heard of that's one thing, but if you bought a fake Michelin Pilot Sport on, thinking you were buying a known product, then that would be a fair comparison

95% of people out there know nothing about their cars aside from:

- When its not working properly take it to a mechanic (even if its an electrical problem)
- Fill it up when the fuel light comes on
- I might need to service it a few times
- My tyres have belts showing, I might need new ones

When they ring up the tyre joint, they get asked what car they have:

- I have a 2006 Toyota Corolla

The person replies:

- Tyres will be $80 each fitted

and the deal goes ahead, I'd say most people getting around don't know what is between them and the road, they only care that type shop A can do it for $50 less a tyre than tyre shop B and they go on price.

Car enthusiasts make up the majority of AFF and this sounds absurd, but we make up maybe .5% of people driving cars, remember that.

[GT450]

To all who are willing to try these without knowing their provenance I say good luck you., I will stick to genuine and proven brands when it comes to tyres and brakes, or at least, what it was manufactured with ( they may not have been red from Toyota but at least the neighbours cars calipers were most likely genuine).
As for being alarmist, I would call it good common sense to be judicious , especially where brakes are concerned and if you think they are good value then put your money into a set for the Magna.
GT450

[Shonky.]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

95% of people out there know nothing about their cars aside from:

- When its not working properly take it to a mechanic (even if its an electrical problem)
- Fill it up when the fuel light comes on
- I might need to service it a few times
- My tyres have belts showing, I might need new ones

When they ring up the tyre joint, they get asked what car they have:

- I have a 2006 Toyota Corolla

The person replies:

- Tyres will be $80 each fitted

and the deal goes ahead, I'd say most people getting around don't know what is between them and the road, they only care that type shop A can do it for $50 less a tyre than tyre shop B and they go on price.

Car enthusiasts make up the majority of AFF and this sounds absurd, but we make up maybe .5% of people driving cars, remember that.

Big difference between choosing to be uniformed and being lied too

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by zilo

So what, my next door neighbours camry with hand painted red calipers has worked for 9 years without failing too.

Fact of the matter is that it will be mostly performance car enthusiasts that will be looking at upgrading their brakes. This type of buyer will not be looking for hand painted standard OEM toyota camry calipers ( much LOLs ) - hence the need to counterfeit them or sell them through the back door will be limited.
The lucrative market is in the high end performance products where people spend serious coin. The lure of a particular brand X and X% lower than factory price attracts attention from both prospective buyers and shifty manufacturers looking to capitalise - because the money will be spent. Buyers are potentially replacing perfectly good OEM products and hardware with untested and unqualified "upgrades" which may give them the additional confidence to push the car beyond what they would "normally" do. False sense of security and confidence.
So if these cheapie Brembos are not QC'd according to BREMBO standard practices - you would expect that they "may" not perform the same as a legit set. Is the concept of "may" good enough ?

Your neighbour who has the painted calipers has a set of calipers that have been OEM tested , approved , accredited and will perform intended application year after year. The fact he painted them does not compromise the hardware enough to warrant a failure.
My Brembo calipers that came with the car will also do the same.

How can you defend a product if it has been untested or not accredited to a minimum standard. Especially brakes ????????? To save a few hundred bucks ...... Not worth it - not even if they were 1/3 the price I wouldnt go anywhere near them.

I dont get how anyone could defend this.

Oh and pics of your neighbours red painted calipers - or it didnt happen.......

[Shonky.]

Can't believe we are having a discussion over whether counterfeiting is wrong or not

What about theft, people care to defend theft?

How bout rape, where do we stand on that?

Ridiculous

[xm289]

Cheap no name I can live with but counterfeiting which rips off people is definitely wrong.

[zilo]

Originally Posted by Bluey-GT

Fact of the matter is that it will be mostly performance car enthusiasts that will be looking at upgrading their brakes. This type of buyer will not be looking for hand painted standard OEM toyota camry calipers ( much LOLs ) - hence the need to counterfeit them or sell them through the back door will be limited.
The lucrative market is in the high end performance products where people spend serious coin. The lure of a particular brand X and X% lower than factory price attracts attention from both prospective buyers and shifty manufacturers looking to capitalise - because the money will be spent. Buyers are potentially replacing perfectly good OEM products and hardware with untested and unqualified "upgrades" which may give them the additional confidence to push the car beyond what they would "normally" do. False sense of security and confidence.
So if these cheapie Brembos are not QC'd according to BREMBO standard practices - you would expect that they "may" not perform the same as a legit set. Is the concept of "may" good enough ?

Your neighbour who has the painted calipers has a set of calipers that have been OEM tested , approved , accredited and will perform intended application year after year. The fact he painted them does not compromise the hardware enough to warrant a failure.
My Brembo calipers that came with the car will also do the same.

How can you defend a product if it has been untested or not accredited to a minimum standard. Especially brakes ????????? To save a few hundred bucks ...... Not worth it - not even if they were 1/3 the price I wouldnt go anywhere near them.

I dont get how anyone could defend this.

Oh and pics of your neighbours red painted calipers - or it didnt happen.......

I'll take the Chinese brembos over red painted toyota stockies...no sweat.

Same as i'll take the chinese Brembo rears over the cheap looking red hand painted stockies on an F6 any day...

[Shonky.]

Originally Posted by zilo

i'll take the chinese Brembo rears over the cheap looking red hand painted stockies on an F6 any day...

Most people move away from that fashion over function mindset as they get older though

I feel pretty safe that PBR have done what they need to do on the rear calipers of my FPV

[Shonky.]

have you considered these?

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/4Pcs-3D-B...item2c7d0ce2fc

[GT450]

You will have the best stopping Magna in town when you buy then ? Let us know how they work out.
GT450

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by zilo

Same as i'll take the chinese Brembo rears over the cheap looking red hand painted stockies on an F6 any day...

You mean those oversized Heavy duty calipers designed for 328mm rotors that they fit as standard equipment to the Territory.......those ones.
The ones that will pull up a fully laden terri ( 0ver 2.2T ) time and time again with surety and confidence. Oh those ones.... Yep, much better off with an untested and no accreditation , potentially unsafe knock off. Russian roulette......much.

This thread is starting to run out of brakes. LOL

[FORCED F6]

I read about this through another site about a week ago and was thinking this is just crap but after reading comments on here, I am starting to think, why isn't "Brembo" or "AP" taking legal action about these copies and branding there name onto something else???

Then brings me back to this comment by GT2:

Originally Posted by GT2

I don't think they are copies or replicas or counterfeit, they are probably from the same contract manufacturer used by Brembo.
1 container out the front door to Brembo and one container out the back for a little added cash flow.

[Shonky.]

I don't think China has the same attitude towards protecting IP as the Western World.

You hear many stories of western corporates trying to uphold their rights like those covered by contract law and getting bruised up by the Chinese legal system.

[Alan D Segal]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

- I have a 2006 Toyota Corolla

The person replies:

- Tyres will be $80 each fitted

and the deal goes ahead, I'd say most people getting around don't know what is between them and the road, they only care that type shop A can do it for $50 less a tyre than tyre shop B and they go on price.

Yeah I had to get new tyres about 6 months ago and I can remember calling up tyre shops and them asking what size I needed.

Tyre guy: "ok we have a new brand called longlake* for $110each or a zhinghao* for 115. They're both good tyres. When do you want them?"

(* may not be real brands)

Me: "Can you get anything better? Like a brand I've heard of?"

Tyre guy: "They're a bit pricey."

In reality a decent brand was about $30-50 per tyre more expensive.

I spoke to about 4 different stores and they all opened the discussion like this. I think they're conditioned to the fact they need to come in cheap to get customers to even consider going there because buying tyres is a chore, not an important safety feature or even a performance upgrade for many.

[Shonky.]

That's exactly how it works.

The above description is a fair process, the tyre retailer is supplying what the customers often want - rubbish cheap tyres.

Now imagine if you rang up and said "I want some Michelin Pilot SuperSports please, as I've heard they're standard fitment to euros like Ferrari and I really care about my safety"

Retailer says "you're right Sir, they're an excellent tyre I have some in stock for $X"

You pick your car up, and it has a set of longlakes, that have been designed to look like Pilot SuperSports.

Is this a fair outcome?

To be clear, I too have my doubts over whether the linked article is actually a counterfeiting operation, or just a retailer of Brembos. Would love to know more if someone has any insight.

But as to whether counterfeiting is equitable or not - I am amazed at how many posters are questioning this. It's just wrong guys. Nobody wins except the IP thief

[geckoGT]

Obviously no one looked at the link I gave to the Brembo website, 5 mins of looking there and you will see that Brembo group manufactures booth Brembo and AP Racing brake components in China for the Asia region.

[Taily]

Originally Posted by Shonky.

... To be clear, I too have my doubts over whether the linked article is actually a counterfeiting operation, or just a retailer of Brembos. Would love to know more if someone has any insight.

But as to whether counterfeiting is equitable or not - I am amazed at how many posters are questioning this. It's just wrong guys. Nobody wins except the IP thief

No idea either but I daresay they wouldn't be the retailer or if they are even the same operation that makes the real deal. Having seen inside the odd large scale manufacturing facility it is difficult to equate what that link shows with the size of what the genuine operation would be. I saw the link and thought it worthwhile to bring to peoples attention that it appears there is nothing sacred.

[Shonky.]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

Obviously no one looked at the link I gave to the Brembo website, 5 mins of looking there and you will see that Brembo group manufactures booth Brembo and AP Racing brake components in China for the Asia region.

Obviously we all saw it, but all wondered how it is relevant at all.

The rice I am eating right now is also from China.

I guess by your logic it is in fact Brembo rice

[geckoGT]

I am questioning if the pics shown in the OP are in fact one of the chinese manufacturing sites for the Brembo group?

I thought that was pretty clear.

[Shonky.]

Originally Posted by Taily

No idea either but I daresay they wouldn't be the retailer or if they are even the same operation that makes the real deal. Having seen inside the odd large scale manufacturing facility it is difficult to equate what that link shows with the size of what the genuine operation would be. I saw the link and thought it worthwhile to bring to peoples attention that it appears there is nothing sacred.

100% agree that it looks very small

Maybe it is simply a local distributor that has a bit of machining equipment for minor mods to finished products.

It's conceivable that mainstream distributors are just trying to cast aspersions over parallel importing. Your hear some ridiculous statements made by tyre outlets to try and scare people from importing tyres for eg.

[Shonky.]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

I am questioning if the pics shown in the OP are in fact one of the chinese manufacturing sites for the Brembo group?

I thought that was pretty clear.

Do you know how big China is?

Just because Brembos are manufactured in China does not mean everything manufactured in China is Brembo.

[geckoGT]

not worth it

[Alan D Segal]

Originally Posted by Shonky.

Do you know how big China is?

Just because Brembos are manufactured in China does not mean everything manufactured in China is Brembo.

Doesn't mean everything manufactured in China for sale isn't Brembo either.

[GT450]

All he was saying was just because brembo manufactures in China does not mean that these brembos are legitmate. If they are then they maybe a bargain. It's the fact that we don't know that causes us to be careful.
We are not saying anything made in China is rubbish , but it is well known they make good copies that don't stand up in real world situations. If anyone want's to bet their life on them to save a few bucks, go ahead, I wouldn't. MY opinion.
GT450

[Alan D Segal]

Neither would I, MY opinion.

[Shonky.]

Originally Posted by Alan D Segal

Doesn't mean everything manufactured in China for sale isn't Brembo either.

Exactly!!


That's my point.

The country of origin of genuine Brembo brakes and counterfeit ones (if they even exist) is irrelevant.

They could both be from China, one from China and one not, or neither from China.


So Brembos could come from US/GB/JP and fakes from China.
Brembos could come from China and fakes from China.
Or even Brembos from China and fakes from US/GB/JP.


You can manufacture something under a genuine licence in any country.

You can counterfeit something in any country.

I really don't understand why this is a sticking point

[Whitey-AMG]

The same artice and concern has been raised on other forums
here is a response from another forum , directly from an AP racing rep

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...4&postcount=50

I guess he has a vested interest in people buying from genuine distributors at "retail" pricing. The concerns he raises have been shared by some on this thread as well.

An interesting point to note is the S/N check on the product.
I guess at the end of the day if you end up with a "really good deal" and you arent sure how legit the product is - you can always check back with the manufacturer and do a S/N Cross check and see if the goods are the real deal in terms of OEM production - or just some accurate copies / counterfeits.

Possible issue would be if the units are in fact genuine - but are bypassing the standard process ( out the back door ) - no S/N recorded etc - then you'd never know.

Its a risk and in the end - not worth your personal safety and that of others.

I wonder how many on here would forego a tried an tested medicine, prescribed by a registered doctor / hopsital that could potentially save a loved ones life if they were really sick for something from a backyarder somewhere out in the burbs - that dabbles in "home brews" - but is whacked into a bottle that looks the same as the real med.......but its only $100 per bottle instead of $1000.00

I think when it comes to safety products - over cosmetic products on cars - choice should be easy to make.

Decisions - decisions.

Anyways - if nothing else - its an interesting topic and one that wont go away. Plenty of this kind of thing getting around in all industries. Buyer Beware.