Clueless ford????

[70caprigt3k]

The old Ford ute ad was awsome, then they canned it for whatever reason. They need more ads like that one.

[4Vman]

Does anyone here know, or wants to guess (sensible guess!) how much Ford spend on advertising on a per car sold basis? I.E: on average how much money in the sales price of the vehicle can be directly attributed to covering advertising and marketing costs?

[DJR David]

Originally Posted by Rodp

How many sales do you expect Ford will make based on a Bathurst win these days? Once upon a time it meant something, today it's virtually worthless. I'd like to meet someone who was persuaded to buy Ford solely on the back of a Bathurst.

Besides, Ford would have to sell a buttload of cars to break even on such a marketing campaign.

Fair question, but my response is simple, why spend the bucks racing then?

not being a smartar*e, but if you spend money racing it is only to make money

[DanielXR8]

To be fair to Ford, they aren't exactly rolling in cash at the moment. The parent company is still haemorrhaging sales and cash, with last months sales a disaster and they are loosing market share and revenue at a faster rate than any other US car company.

Locally the Falcons sales are a fraction of what they should be and Terry is underperforming as well. Despite Tom Gorman’s claims I can’t believe Ford Australia isn’t loosing money right now and probably quite a bit of it. Then you have the Orion and new Territory projects that would be sucking up any cash locally Ford can spare.

So throwing money at advertising a car that is past its prime may not make a lot of sense. So by some miracle you increase sales 10%? That just means the cars underperforming in sales by 30% or whatever.

Frankly I wouldn’t be surprised that Ford is so strapped for cash right now that the only thing they can really do right now is horde what advertising budget they have for the launch of Orion and hope that car gets them out of a hole. Things aren’t pretty at Ford at the moment.

[King Nothing]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Does anyone here know, or wants to guess (sensible guess!) how much Ford spend on advertising on a per car sold basis? I.E: on average how much money in the sales price of the vehicle can be directly attributed to covering advertising and marketing costs?

Well assume ford sell around ~125,000 (based on an August sale figure of 10,323). I guess they might spend 5 mil? So it would be $40/car. Even if its 10 mil, thats only $80 per car. Only a guess though.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by King Nothing

Well assume ford sell around ~125,000 (based on an August sale figure of 10,323). I guess they might spend 5 mil? So it would be $40/car. Even if its 10 mil, thats only $80 per car. Only a guess though.

Miles off _2: , anyone else?

[5.0failane]

With the huge amount of talented people and resources we have from members of this site, why dont we as a collective of passionate ford enthusiasts do some advertising on Fords behalf. With the use of tools like youtube and viral marketing why dont some of the people on here come up with their own adverts. They wont be subject to the rules which govern what can and cant go into a tv advertisements, thans to the pedestrian council and with the number of members on here it has the potential to reach a larger audience anyway. So get photoshop out or some multimedia software and start knocking something out. Anybody remember the re-branded Tool (toll) car, that made its way around the world alot quicker than some overpriced newspaper adverts!

[Mutley]

Originally Posted by merlin

Totally agree - I was laughing quite hard at that Commodore Bathurst Special ad last night...thinking they (Holden) really didn't think that one through.

Fords lack of advertising is alarming given the amount of money they pour into the V8 Supercar series soley for the point of making their factory cars have some sort of tenuous link with the V8 supercars - then they fail to capatilise on it when they have a 1,2,3 at Bathurst. Full page ads should have been rolling on Monday - marketing should be sacked (they would be in any other business).

I am the marketing manager of an Australian manufacturing company. Increasingly we see a better return on our marketing budgets from areas outside the traditional mass media forms (TV, radio and newspapers).

The advent of the internet through chat forums such as this is now having a more significant impact on buyer decision making than TV etc. when involved in what we call high involvement decisions (Where the buyer spends considerable time and sometimes expense in making a decision such as a car).

Millions of dollars of research is now showing that generation X have an inherent distrust of mass media advertising and prefer to base their decisions on facts derived through the internet.

Most on this forum would have seen posts relating not only to cars but computers etc which start with "does anyone own one of these... Any problems?" Responses to these questions have a powerful impact on buyer behaviour.

The upshot of this is in the long term, you will have a better overall marketing impact by allocating a significant portion of your advertising budget to R&D, warranty expense and dealer training. None of these areas are good for CEO's egoes but they are becoming increasingly good for the bottom line.

No-one here will forget the win on Sunday in a hurry. To average Joe Blow, Ford's engineering credentials in Australia have gone up at the expense on Holdens.

I wouldn't write Ford off because they haven't milked the TV ads. They are not in a cashed up position but appear from where I sit to be spending their money on a new generation of cars which is where they ultimately need to be if they are to survive in the long term.

[Peter B - CV8]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Miles off _2: , anyone else?

I've always thought that advertising costs represents around 5% of gross sales in the motor industry.
So, if Ford are selling approx 120,000- cars at an average price of $30k (I'm averaging the product lineup to reflect small,medium & large vehicles), it should be about $1,500- per vehicle in advertising costs.
Am I close ????

[Casper]

Originally Posted by red_hotxr6

I have to disagree with you on that point, Ford won it last year, Stephen came 4th i think, forget who came 3rd, and the way Craig has been going this year, along with some other Ford drivers in this year,s series, why do you say " ford didnt expect to win for another 6-7 years". Maybe they are watching there advertising dollars, but i think realistically they had a very good chance of winning it this year. and i am not having a go at you, i really do think Ford had a real good chance of winning this year and i think we have a real good chance next year as well.

Sorry, I said that with "tongue in cheek" to highlight Fords woeful advertising skills.

[FASTXR]

Originally Posted by Peter B - CV8

I've always thought that advertising costs represents around 5% of gross sales in the motor industry.

Yep, 5% of gross profits is a fairly popular rule of thumb, no matter what the industry.

Originally Posted by Mutley

Millions of dollars of research is now showing that generation X have an inherent distrust of mass media advertising and prefer to base their decisions on facts derived through the internet.

Most on this forum would have seen posts relating not only to cars but computers etc which start with "does anyone own one of these... Any problems?" Responses to these questions have a powerful impact on buyer behaviour.

The upshot of this is in the long term, you will have a better overall marketing impact by allocating a significant portion of your advertising budget to R&D, warranty expense and dealer training. None of these areas are good for CEO's egoes but they are becoming increasingly good for the bottom line.

I wouldn't write Ford off because they haven't milked the TV ads. They are not in a cashed up position but appear from where I sit to be spending their money on a new generation of cars which is where they ultimately need to be if they are to survive in the long term.

I would agree to that, but only to a certain extent.
Yes, money needs to invested in areas such as R&D, dealer training etc. After all, if your product is a dog it doesn't matter how much money you pour into marketing it, it still won't be well received.

However, the flip side of the coin is that no-one will buy your all-new, improved, hi-tech product if they don't know about it! You need the initial advertising to at least raise people's awareness of your product(s), and then have the support mechanisms - informational website, brochures, knowledgeable salespeople - to satisfy those people who want further information.
Whether their product is better or worse, Holden would be shifting more units because they would be far more "top of mind" for car purchasers than Ford IMO.

[LTDHO]

Ford marketing have no idea.

The '1-2-3' win it the biggest thing to happen to Ford in a very long time and we don't hear peep. They're fools and no wonder they had to can Fairlane and LTD, again no marketing.

Ford will become a buisiness of supplying taxi's.

Very poor effort from FoMoCo.

Everytime I turn on the TV or radio there should be something from Ford telling me their cars are that great that they take out 1, 2 and 3 in the biggest race of the year.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Peter B - CV8

I've always thought that advertising costs represents around 5% of gross sales in the motor industry.
So, if Ford are selling approx 120,000- cars at an average price of $30k (I'm averaging the product lineup to reflect small,medium & large vehicles), it should be about $1,500- per vehicle in advertising costs.
Am I close ????

Very... depending on a few factors im told it equates to nearly $2000 per car...

[King Nothing]

Wow.... so thats about $240m a year?! Where the hell does it all go??

[Sourbastard]

Originally Posted by Rodp

How many sales do you expect Ford will make based on a Bathurst win these days? Once upon a time it meant something, today it's virtually worthless.

You're kidding right? Try getting modifications done on a car right after bathurst ANY year and you will find many performance houses are booked solid for a full two weeks after. I know this after ringing a half dozen performance places here in adelaide to get my crapulent exhaust done while i still have tax money left, and I kept getting the same excuse. "No Can do mate, have to clear the books of the bathurst wannabe's first!"

Bathurst brings out the boy racers, and if they dont have a car to modify, chances are they are looking to buy a car. And it doesnt matter if they are red or blue it seems, bathurst brings them all out for different reasons.

Dont look at the situation with any logic, it isnt logical. Holden Bogans are out getting mods done and buying cars so they can "Prove Holdens iz still fast bro!" and the ford luddites are doing the same because "Nah Biaaatch my fords she is fastests uleh, im born again lowndsey!" Look at the lowest common denominators, not the people who actually think and breathe at the same time.

[ED Classic]

I am expecting a huge Add in the Herald Sun Tmro, next to the Cars Guide...They better as I seem to recall Holden doing it during their domination years 5 or 10 years ago.

[fairBA]

[QUOTE Argh, ford are hopeless. I watched the coverage from 7.30 till finish and did not see ONE ford ad. Yet every ad break there was at least one holden ad. How can they expect to sell cars when they don't even book ONE ad in on bathurst, the most important day in Australian motor sport (well the v8s anyway)?
.[/QUOTE]


There was an ad - it ran for about 6.5 hours, had some Holdens with bad brakes in it and finshed with 3 Fords holding trophies!!!

[banarcus]

I'm really suffering. I need to see a pro Ford ad on tv that reflects its triumph at Bathurst so that I feel better owning a Ford....

[King Nothing]

Originally Posted by fairBA

There was an ad - it ran for about 6.5 hours, had some Holdens with bad brakes in it and finshed with 3 Fords holding trophies!!!

fair enough. You get my point though. Poor effort by ford marketing.

[xbgs351]

It's not like they were actually Ford Falcons that one Bathurst.

[tapeworm]

Average Joe probably thinks Holden won Bathurst this year with all their Bathurst advertising and the dead silence from the blue corner, no joke.

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by DJR David

Fair question, but my response is simple, why spend the bucks racing then?

not being a smartar*e, but if you spend money racing it is only to make money

How many bucks do Ford themselves actually spend on V8 Supercars? Not knowing what the cost distribution is, I'd have expected that individual teams are covering the majority of the costs (mainly through sponsorship) of buying the cars, spares, etc and ferrying the team around to each event, not Ford.

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by sourbastard

You're kidding right? Try getting modifications done on a car right after bathurst ANY year and you will find many performance houses are booked solid for a full two weeks after. I know this after ringing a half dozen performance places here in adelaide to get my crapulent exhaust done while i still have tax money left, and I kept getting the same excuse. "No Can do mate, have to clear the books of the bathurst wannabe's first!"

Bathurst brings out the boy racers, and if they dont have a car to modify, chances are they are looking to buy a car. And it doesnt matter if they are red or blue it seems, bathurst brings them all out for different reasons.

Fair enough, but without any hard data, "you're kidding" doesn't really mean anything. Ok, so performance shops are booked up but that doesn't necessarily equate to a single sale by Ford, it just tells me that perfomance shops have lots of new business. I guess next months sales figures will show if there's a spike after a Bathurst win.

If you had issues trying to place an order for a new Ford and there was a massive backlog right after a Bathurst, then you'd have a point.

[kiwikid10]

Had an interesting conversation today over lunch before the preview of the Sydney motor show.
Was on the exact topic that is being discussed here.
The guy was telling me that Ford don't spend money on advertising during the race as it has little or no impact on sales figures, years of market research has shown this to be true.(Win on Sunday and sell on Monday still holds true, but not as much as it used to) In essence people know that Ford is racing holden so the Ford brand is already being seen on TV, even better if it wins. Advertising in the breaks is saying that 2+2 = 3 in terms of doller return vs spend (remember you are already watching FORDS on TV and they have already spent the money on the sponsorship of teams etc). The money is being kept in order to advertise the new mondeo and then the Orion next year.

By the way the guy that told me all this, was called Tom Gorman. He likes lemon ice cream as he had 2 servings and he is quite funny when he is relaxed.

Also Ford employees ask the same question all the time and get the same response that I just posted here, it's OK to be passionate about our Fords, but Ford is committed to make money and that is their strategy at present for advertising budgets. And before I get flamed or the business guru's go on about how they would run Ford, remember this guy is no idiot, he is here to put Ford Australia back on top and big businesses do not take failure too well these days.

[Sourbastard]

Originally Posted by Rodp

Fair enough, but without any hard data, "you're kidding" doesn't really mean anything. Ok, so performance shops are booked up but that doesn't necessarily equate to a single sale by Ford, it just tells me that perfomance shops have lots of new business. I guess next months sales figures will show if there's a spike after a Bathurst win.

If you had issues trying to place an order for a new Ford and there was a massive backlog right after a Bathurst, then you'd have a point.

yeah youre right sorry, Ford, GM, Dodge and Toyota waste money every year investing in motorsports because it doesnt result in any sales. Ill inform Avesco and have the bathurst track turned into a Housing Estate by the end of the week.

Manufacturers dont spend the cash because they feel sorry for race drivers and dont want to see them starve. They spend the money because its a proven sales getter. Its televised, its hyped and people think they can own a piece of it at the car yard.

Theres millions spent on motor racing by manufacturers every year in Nascar, Supercars, Formula 1, Indy, WRC to promote their brands.

Now this is the part I love.

Where is YOUR hard data?

[redranga]

After Ford win at Bathurst last year they had a full page advert in he Advertiser in Adelaide with a pic of Lowndes car with a lions tail hanging out of the front bumper.

I put it on the pin up board at work but the boss man ripped it down as soon as he saw it.

[XTGT Code Z]

ford to a T.

get a perfect opportunity like a 1 2 3 at the biggest race of the year, let it slip through their fingers, and then theyll whinge and whine in 6 months time about the strong holden ad campains that they cant compete with.

jeez, holden are STILL using the 'celebrate bathurst month sale' thingo on the radio AFTER that tail-kicking, and are probably doing ok from it, so what the hell is fords problem?

[Green X]

The people who feel wining Bathurst is important to Ford would already know that Ford have won Bathurst and so would anybody else who is remotely interested in Australian Motor racing, Ford had 1000km of air time during the race How much more advertising do you need.

Telling other members of the Public who don't really give 2 hoots about Ford or Holden or V8's and who are likely going to go out and by a Camry or what ever that Ford won isn't going to make them go and by a falcon instead is it.

Like somebody else said it's not like The Falcon Won the race, Well the falcon shell did but that's it, if it was the BOSS V8 powering the wining Fords then yes that would be something to capitalise on big time.

I got allot of friends who i could tell em that Ford won Bathurst and It wouldn't mean a thing to em, Like they like my XR6T and if we are going somewhere then it's normally in the T but they aren't going to go out and buy one for them self cause they aren't car type people.

That's the way I see it anyway.

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by FASTXR

Yep, 5% of gross profits is a fairly popular rule of thumb, no matter what the industry.

I would agree to that, but only to a certain extent.
Yes, money needs to invested in areas such as R&D, dealer training etc. After all, if your product is a dog it doesn't matter how much money you pour into marketing it, it still won't be well received.

However, the flip side of the coin is that no-one will buy your all-new, improved, hi-tech product if they don't know about it! You need the initial advertising to at least raise people's awareness of your product(s), and then have the support mechanisms - informational website, brochures, knowledgeable salespeople - to satisfy those people who want further information.
Whether their product is better or worse, Holden would be shifting more units because they would be far more "top of mind" for car purchasers than Ford IMO.

You have a point, but the reason I have a Mazda parked outside my house, instead of a Falcon GT, is because Ford got me in the dealership with the car and the advertising and then proceeded to do a lousy job of looking after me when it was obvious the car was built on a Friday. Since this wasn't my first run in with this sort of problem with the brand, I sold the car to save me the stress and walked away.

What was missing from my buying experience was some basic engineering in the car to overcome inherit traits in BA/BF's (driveline shunt on manuals for instance), build quality (variable) and customer service (ok with one dealer to the worst experience of my life with another). So you could say Ford is their own worst enemy with their advertising. Get new customers in, give them a poor experience and watch them not come back.

Mutley nailed this one with his earlier quote. I thought about getting a SS-V to replace the GT, but just didn't like what I read on the various Holden forums about VE issues. My neighbour has had problems with his VY Commodore too, nothing major, but enough to make you wonder about the build quality. Basically a multimillion dollar advertising campaign is not going to get me to buy any brand of car anymore. Lots of happy customers of brand X, means I will certainly consider them. Lots of stories about Ford standing by the customers and putting some errant dealers in their place or out of the brand altogether, will score points too.

I miss my GT sometimes, but I won’t be in the door of a Ford dealer until I am sure they will give a dam about my custom. Same for Q public who have been burnt with the brand or know someone else who has. For me its easy to gauge, because when the local franshise is changed, I know Ford is listening.

Ford made this mess and they need to clean it up and be sure through their actions they got the message and want us all to know. Ads are just not going to cut it anymore. Orion is set to have a short time in the sun sales wise if Ford havent learnt those fundamental lessons from the BA Falcon. Ford is really too far past the point now where a good ad can really save them. They need nothing less than fundamental cultural and corporate change.

Regards,
Dan

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by sourbastard

yeah youre right sorry, Ford, GM, Dodge and Toyota waste money every year investing in motorsports because it doesnt result in any sales. Ill inform Avesco and have the bathurst track turned into a Housing Estate by the end of the week.

Manufacturers dont spend the cash because they feel sorry for race drivers and dont want to see them starve. They spend the money because its a proven sales getter. Its televised, its hyped and people think they can own a piece of it at the car yard.

Theres millions spent on motor racing by manufacturers every year in Nascar, Supercars, Formula 1, Indy, WRC to promote their brands.

Now this is the part I love.

Where is YOUR hard data?

No point moving the goal posts and building a strawman. This is about the value of marketing after a Bathurst win, not investing in motorsport. The hard data will be available next month, not by asking local performance shops.