Alright AFF, lets lower the road toll...: Solutions

[Scott]

Originally Posted by GTP006

All [young] driver related at this stage, will come back with others when I find another 2c piece:

Learner drivers drive at the same limit as everyone else - why only learn half the job??
Every licence is a manual licence;
The instructing driver must be over 25yo and have passed a recertification within the past 3yrs;
0% Drug & Alcohol;
Power to Weight cap;
Night curfew;
Passenger limit;
Bi-annual RWC;

More from me, this time at "other" drivers:

Re-apply for your drivers licence every 5 years;
As much focus on poor driving form as there is on speeding;
Annual RWC;
Increased HWY speed limits;
Standardise speed limits/zones - 40/60/80/100/130 (remove 50/70/90/110);
Introduce 3 day/2 week suspensions for midless acts of stupidity, things like minor school zone speeding, burnouts, unsafe load, bad defect, doing makeup etc;
Change from a coin operated approach to a life saving approach;

I'll put some thought into roads next.

[Franco Cozzo]

I'm going to sound like a grumpy old ****** (I'm a grumpy young ******) but as much as you provide evidence and statistics and push all these "driver training" stuff on the Government, they won't pay for any of it or push it on people, because it costs money, its cheaper to let people die unfortunately.

[Scott]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

I'm going to sound like a grumpy old ****** (I'm a grumpy young ******) but as much as you provide evidence and statistics and push all these "driver training" stuff on the Government, they won't pay for any of it or push it on people, because it costs money, its cheaper to let people die unfortunately.

And I thought money was key to revenue raising? QLD'ers with a pool will know that generating costs is a "good thing" and saves lives... like speed cameras do.

[redxm]

Here's my idea, the technology is available to do it and wouldnt take a lot of money.
Make your drivers licence a smart card. Insert into dash to start the car.
If you are a P plater the speed is limited to 90/100
Full licence holders are not limited, Unless they are a repeat offender.
Cars driven by P platers must be fitted with the device, similar idea to the blow device in Drink drivers cars.
It might take some time to filter down so eventually all cars are fitted
This wont stop idiots doing 100 in a 40 zone, but it might be a start.

[noosacuda]

Originally Posted by pottery beige

more speed cameras.. they save lives.....

[grandpa_spec_F6]

Laws don't stop people from doing stupid things. Being caught DOES. It might not stop them from doing it again, but it might mean they don't wipe someone out THAT night.

After a very alarming incident recently in my neighbourhood I am even more adamant they need more funding, if I could I'd throw money at them for more training, better equipment and more Officers.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by grandpa_spec_au

Laws don't stop people from doing stupid things. Being caught DOES. It might not stop them from doing it again, but it might mean they don't wipe someone out THAT night.

After a very alarming incident recently in my neighbourhood I am even more adamant they need more funding, if I could I'd throw money at them for more training, better equipment and more Officers.

Shame it never has and will never work.

Death penalty for smuggling drugs....
Life imprisonment for murder....

If Laws actually worked then there would be no one ever convicted of these crimes would there.

The other half of the problem is "what is a stupid thing?"

Is doing 110 in a 100 zone stupid?
Is driving a giant 4wd out the front of a primary school at 3pm stupid?
Is putting cheapo tyres on your car so you can afford nicer rims stupid?
Is doing 200km/h in the middle of the desert when no other vehicles within 50km stupid?
Is driving an old car with no crumple zones, airbags, DSC, ABS etc stupid?
Is converting a crappy old car to run on a compressed gas instead of petrol to eventually save a tiny amount of money stupid?

For every person who thinks one of these things is stupid there is another who thinks they are perfectly ok and vice-versa.

[pulpist]

Life is a crap shoot.

Lower ya odds, think, and don't drive like a bloody idiot.

Easy eh?

[04redxr8]

Originally Posted by plarazza

Government subsidized driving courses
Not sure if they have already done it in the past or some states are doing. But I believe the government should be giving assistance to drivers in taking advanced/defensive driving courses, especially P Platers. The problem is these can cost around $200-$300

Disagree strongly. Driving is a priviledge, not a right. want to drive, pay for it yourself.

[NudgE^SIKBRO]

Make it harder to GET your licence
Bonus for SAFE LEGAL Driving/not getting points... I got 25% discount on my licence renewal for no points in over 3 years, I tell ya what, if they made it 25% of my Regos... Id DEFINATELY never speed again...
Regular Safety inspections... Speaks for itself
INSTRUCT ALL DRIVERS ABOUT SHARING THE ROAD... As a full time driver its perthetic the way so many people seem to thing they own the WHOLE road...
More Police... yes POLICE, Not Cowboys with a badge
Compulsery driving EDUCATION, at ALL AGES, not just kids or oldies
.000 For first 5 years of driving and retain .05 for the rest
when your Licence is suspended or whatever, so should be your Rego, I dont care if your wife needs to get to work...
Harsher Penalties... Hip Pockets hurt most...

And another little safety note... In any late model passenger car it has to have airbags and what not... IN ANY car i MUST wear a Seat belt, Shoes and what not... How bout making motor cyclists wear the safety gear, not just a helmet, Propper Kevlar Pants/Jackets, Boots and Gloves, None of this Singlet, Shorts and Runners junk no body cares how sexy you think you look. Want a 2 seater for that wind on ya skin feeling, buy a bloody MX5... 3 Demerit points if you dont have ANY or ALL of the gear on

[Bent8]

It's practically impossible to reduce the road toll mate, not when you have a population explosion, deteriorating road networks and hundreds of new cars on the roads everyday.

In fact, if the road toll stayed steady, you could say it's actually dropping if you get my drift.

My advice: stop worrying about other people's actions and just look out for yourself when your out driving (I believe it's called defensive driving).

[Road Games]

Originally Posted by pulpist

Life is a crap shoot.

Lower ya odds, think, and don't drive like a bloody idiot.

Easy eh?

That is rep worthy...

[NAFairlane]

just curious as to everyones hatred towards p platers around here? are you all suggesting you have never gone up a dirt road and done a burnout? never sped a little? you never thought you were showing off when you were actually being a tool?

We have all purposely done a burnout, we have all put our foot down on a country road to see how fast we dare go, we have all sped on a public road. I dont care if your an old bloke, you did it when you got your licence some more than others. Most of us are relatively responsible with it meaning we go out onto a dirt road or a industrial estate at night where we can only damage ourselves, theres a select few who screw it up. If these car crushing laws applied to old codgers you'd all be complaining about how ridiculous they are too, especially when they crush your 100k+ classic's etc. So quit crying and get over it.

Sorry i know its a bit off topic but im sick of you old blokes who think you are better than p platers just because you have experience. If you keep making it harder to get our licences how the hell are we going to get real world experience? The best learning experience any driver ever has is their first crash, from then on you realise just how dangerous cars can be, how easily things go wrong. Everyone makes mistakes, only idiots make them twice.

[pulpist]

Originally Posted by NAFairlane

just curious as to everyones hatred towards p platers around here? are you all suggesting you have never gone up a dirt road and done a burnout? never sped a little? you never thought you were showing off when you were actually being a tool?

We have all purposely done a burnout, we have all put our foot down on a country road to see how fast we dare go, we have all sped on a public road. I dont care if your an old bloke, you did it when you got your licence some more than others. Most of us are relatively responsible with it meaning we go out onto a dirt road or a industrial estate at night where we can only damage ourselves, theres a select few who screw it up. If these car crushing laws applied to old codgers you'd all be complaining about how ridiculous they are too, especially when they crush your 100k+ classic's etc. So quit crying and get over it.

Sorry i know its a bit off topic but im sick of you old blokes who think you are better than p platers just because you have experience. If you keep making it harder to get our licences how the hell are we going to get real world experience? The best learning experience any driver ever has is their first crash, from then on you realise just how dangerous cars can be, how easily things go wrong. Everyone makes mistakes, only idiots make them twice.

Well mate I'm not young, and I'm not old either, sorta in the middle, and this really puts the attitude of some of you young blokes right out there for stupidity

The best learning experience any driver ever has is their first crash

Yeah, and it could very well be your first, and last crash

Most of us are relatively responsible with it meaning we go out onto a dirt road or a industrial estate at night where we can only damage ourselves

That's not responsible, that is illegal eh?

and remember you are not only going to damage yourself if you lose it, you are also going to damage the EMS dudes who have to dig you out of a car wreck, the coppers who have to deal with the aftermath of stupidity, as well as the emotional and probably financial damage you are going to cause to your family and friends

[GreenR]

Originally Posted by 04redxr8

Disagree strongly. Driving is a priviledge, not a right. want to drive, pay for it yourself.

Maybe so but out of the millions of people who are driving on the road, do you think they share the same opinion? That driving is a privilege not a right. If life or death situations occur and other cars are involved the difference could be that one driver knew what to do in that few seconds because they attended advanced driving courses.

Not many people are sitting at home thinking yeah ok I'll spend $300 on a one day driving course. But if they are subsidized and made less expensive to the public it is more enticing to do so. The point of this thread and subsequent posts is solutions to reduce road toll.

[TURBOTAXI]

Hard cuts through speed limiters are dangerous too.

I really liked the idea that over 70's get free public transport, a much more balanced suggestion than a complex web of testing from that age.

I also liked the discounted licence/rego for no black marks in a 3 year period.

Whilst authorities wont want to admit it, the roads could use some improvement.

Training is also an issue, I paid $1200 for a drive day in commodore cup cars where we did theory and practice at Oran Park. Got to explore limits of traction in a controlled environment. Got advised about cornering theory and how best to turn the wheel, braking etc.. all small stuff, but all helpful.

How hard would it be to deploy sensors every 20 meters on the mid line and the side of the road in accident black spots? a receiver in the cabin powered from a cigarette socket would beep (annoying noise) if the front corner of the car ventured over the mid line or the side. So many accidents out here are fatigue inattention related where the car drifts over an off the road or into oncoming traffic.

This sort of thing could be built into GPS units, especially as the internal processors become faster, and the satellite numbers increase. You would be able to manually hit a "snooze" button (pardon the pun) that would manually deactivate if you were pulling over intentionally for a minute and the system would not reset until the car started accelerating over 40k's per hour again.

Any of these things would need to be utilised by drivers, but if someone is determined to do the wrong thing, we have very few options.

I dont think we need more police, Its driver behaviour change we need.

[Bucknaked]

Originally Posted by TURBOTAXI

I really liked the idea that over 70's get free public transport, a much more balanced suggestion than a complex web of testing from that age.

I also liked the discounted licence/rego for no black marks in a 3 year period.

I like these suggestions. I also don't agree on the speed limiters. Sometimes you need that extra power just to get out of the way or get yourself out of a situation. Evasive action.

For those repeat offenders of hooning and excess speeds and other road related incidents, I would like to see a compulsory day in the morgue and funeral home. Especially those involved in a road fatility. See first hand what can happen. I think even a trip with the police to deliver news to a family of the road death of a loved one. Let them see the impacts Might be a wake up call. First offence they are warned. But if they continue to break it, they this is what they must do.

[Bushbasher]

EDUCATE, EDUCATE, EDUCATE!! Mandatory driver training in schools as a regular part of the curriculum. It should encompass all the theory and advanced driver training elements as well as the police visits to explain and show the consequences of stupidity on the roads. If they're going to gouge us with speed cameras then at least use the revenue raised to educate the next and subsequent generations on how to drive safely and courteously instead of just pocketing the money and putting it into general revenue like as happens now.


Bushbasher

[Stefan]

Not 100% convinced on the advanced driving thing. In your story Willo why did your mates gf lose control of the car? In my 25 years of driving I have never lost control! If young people stopped driving like d!ckheads than they would not lose control.

No need to learn how to recover a car that is out of control if you don't lose control in the first place.

[LTDHO]

I would have thought more people would have taken this opportunity a little more seriously.

After dealing with motor accidents daily, I have my ideas to reduce them. None of the ideas will generate funds. If anything, they will cost the government and the public, but surely that is better than an increasing road toll.

[kezzer]

I'd be more worried with reducing deaths from heart-disease then the roadtoll. But thats just me, lost a few family members already.

[kezzer]

Originally Posted by kaniSS

Takes me half a millisecond to look at the speedo.

Thats all it takes to cause an accident.

[jamesson1980]

There's many ways to lessen the chances of deaths on the roads, but two things will always remain constant.. human error and human naivety. The only way to combat these things is to take the human factor out of driving which obviously can't be done, so we have to accept that people will die on the roads.

Human error, well everyone's prone to that, I know I have been and it cost me my XR8 but luckily nothing more serious.

Human naivety, this is my nice way of saying automotive dickery. With all the GPS technology out now, maybe hoons and serial road menaces/ dangerous drivers could have their car fitted with an all seeing, all knowing revenue device to detect speeding at all times and maybe even detect loss of traction for extended periods, drift etc. Obviously unrealistc and costly at this stage but in the future maybe??

Failing that, I remember my old town of Cranbourne used to be over run with skaters in the 90's.. all over the roads, in the shopping centre, knocking people over in the street.. suddenly skate parks went up everywhere, most notably 'THE SHED' and skaters became rare as rockinghorse shyyt in public. Maybe more tracks, skid pans, dirt paddocks available for people to show their self-proclaimed skills, under supervision from an operator, in an environment where they're only jeopardising their own safety. Still, probably pie-in-the-sky but worth a mention.

[XCXDBABF]

1a. Reduced registration costs on a 4WD if you have another vehicle registered as a daily driver. (Perhaps limit the number of kilometres that can be travelled by the 4WD in a year). Or require an off-road course be completed to drive a 4WD (might stop a few people buying them that will never use them for their intended purpose).

-OR-

1b. Scrap registration costs and apply a higher tax to fuel. Heavier vehicles, performance orientated vehicles, and older vehicles will become compartively more expensive to drive and encourage people into smaller, more fuel efficient, and newer, better safety equiped vehicles. Provide a rebate for business vehicles that have specific requirements for certain types of vehicles.

2. Require police, whatever their rank, to drive marked police cars unless it is absolutely necessary for their duties to drive an unmarked vehicle. This would at least provide the appearance of greater police presence and may make a few people stop and think about their actions - and not just on the roads.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by 04redxr8

Disagree strongly. Driving is a priviledge, not a right. want to drive, pay for it yourself.

Its a bit more than a priviledge here where there is no public transport.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Its a bit more than a priviledge here where there is no public transport.

Agree absolutely.

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by noosacuda

that must be the record for yelrotflm's.......

[Coyote mk3]

Originally Posted by Stefan

Not 100% convinced on the advanced driving thing. In your story Willo why did your mates gf lose control of the car? In my 25 years of driving I have never lost control! If young people stopped driving like d!ckheads than they would not lose control.

No need to learn how to recover a car that is out of control if you don't lose control in the first place.

Accidents do happen you know.
Now I doubt you are going to believe me here because I am a 17 y.o P-plater and therefore obviously drive like a d*$%head.

I personally have had to use basic skills I learned on a skidpan a couple of times now.
Just uneven wet road that has nowhere near the amount of grip as a good/normal road.
turn the wheel to turn the corner the car under steers, thinking back to what I have learned I ease off the steering wheel and throttle and have another go. Went around without hitting anything.
My friend did a very similar thing - has has never done any sort of skid control. He didn't know what to do and kept turning harder. Needless to say he hit the gutter and caused minor damage to his car. He was not driving like an idiot either.

The other memorable time was when I was turning onto a road which immediately had an incline.
I could tell it was slippery as it was also a very rough surface, so I took it quite slow.
Wheels spun a little in first so I quickly changed to second. Was good for a little bit and spun as the revs went up a little.
Changed the third gear (only doing 40 K's) and finally decent traction.
Reach the top of the crest, still only doing about 45-50k's and accelerating slowly.
Right on the crest it kicked sideways and my reaction was to put a decent amount of opposite lock on to keep me on the black stuff.
3rd gear, 50K's in an E-series Falcon should not do this. I blame bad road and/or some oil.

What I am getting at is there are many things that happen by accident and unforeseen dangers on the road.
Giving people the education on what to do when things go wrong, will reduce carnage on the roads.

What I learned was just from a couple of muck-a-round days on the skidpan, not even a dedicated course.
Which I plan on doing in the next year when I can afford it.

Anyone who reads this and thinks I am trying to make it sound like I am a pro driver completely missed the point, because I am not and never will be.
I am a young still in-experienced driver who has done a little skid control, and it has already payed off at least twice in the 10 Months I have been driving on my own.

Cheers - and safe driving to all

[dannyhilton]

Compulsory Driver Training

In my mind, this MUST be the first point of action. It'd be great to have wonderful roads, even better if other drivers were courteous, but this you can't control. If people are taught the skills of how to drive, then they are more aware, and prepared for the inevitable silly season that is our roads. This needs to be completed before attaining your L plates, I'm talking defencing driving courses, get the basics of how to drive.

[04redxr8]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Its a bit more than a priviledge here where there is no public transport.

So that immediately renders you immune from any laws that would suspend your license? Huh?

I run my own business, employ 3-4 people and rely on my car and license to oversee my business. Guess what happens if I do the wrong thing.

DRIVING IS A PRIVELEDGE. It can be revoked.