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24-01-2014, 11:33 PM | #31 | ||
Where to next??
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 8,893
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I'm wondering,.... if Toyota workers accept the new conditions (and I would if I were in their shoes) would this set a precedent for other large employers to follow?
When things were great so were workers conditions, it is only to be expected that the belt automatically tightens when things slow down. Getting paid to donate blood? What a joke. Scrap that perk altogether IMO.
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___________________________ I've been around the world a couple of times or maybe more....... |
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24-01-2014, 11:45 PM | #32 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Victoria
Posts: 2,182
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Toyota workers and the unions will dig their heels in cos they think Toyota is bluffing
If TMC close shop because their workers are too stupid to understand what's happening in the real world, I say they deserve what's coming to them It's a shame that they are going to take so many others with them |
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25-01-2014, 12:31 AM | #33 | ||
Wirlankarra yanama
Join Date: May 2006
Location: God's Country
Posts: 2,103
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Sick Leave ??? I'm self employed, if I don't work I don't get paid.
Is it true that every single auto-worker has to be a union member? If so why? |
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25-01-2014, 12:48 AM | #34 | ||
DJR Fan
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 448
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Why is it the workers fault?
Why is it the unions fault? Its the employers sign off on what they agree to pay/benefits to employees in EBA's. Managers are educated people with degrees these days and therefore accountable, so why would they sign off on something that will be detrimental to them and the company? What ? The working class in Australia have rights? Imagine that... Share the pain managers, stand up and be accountable - you can't off load everything to someone else all the time. |
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25-01-2014, 01:10 AM | #35 | |||
Starter Motor
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 5
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To take some of your quotes (therefore the company is (forced)forced to seek cheaper labour to compete with cheaper countries, meanwhile nothing is coming down in price.) How true is this, for example, Sidchrome went over seas yet their spanners never got any cheaper, but the quality did, although they tried to tell us they were still as good, Same with Clipsal, all your power points and light switches and stuff are now from over seas yet still cost the same. There are many more items out there in the same boat. And another quote. (therefore poverty is now moving to professionals also) Darn right there. My niece finished her law degree at the end of 2012 and still hasnt been able to get a job in her field. The usual excuses, "we want someone with experience" well how the hell do you get experience if you wont give them a chance! Btw, has anyone noticed Nabisco biscuits are made in China, yes, including Oreos. Colgate toothpaste, made in Thailand. Makes me sick. |
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25-01-2014, 02:14 AM | #36 | ||
Experienced Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Australasia
Posts: 7,732
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25-01-2014, 02:36 AM | #37 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,451
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I think some common sense a certificate for just one day is absurd. For one thing our GP's don't need their waiting rooms filled with people who normally would just take the day off in bed and taking up the time of the GP better spent with other patients who have reason to be there beyond their employer doesn't trust them. |
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25-01-2014, 02:50 AM | #38 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,451
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All raw materials must be processed at least one level, before it can be exported. All free trade agreements are null and void if the other country impose any direct or indirect tax that is designed to go against the spirit of the free trade agreement. All foreign national businesses that setup in Australia and produce in Australia have their corporate tax reduced by a third compared to those who import only. Having opportunities for all Australians to work in many sectors of trade and business is important for our long term viability and for the good health and welfare of all Australians. Government policy must always strive for a balanced economy where Australians are involved in all areas of research, manufacturing, science, medicine, agriculture, engineering, mining and others. The current imbalance in our economy must be seen as unacceptable. Australian startups are given access to larger cash loans and investments from Government with less red tape. Australian government agencies must always, always purchase Australian made goods wherever there is one available. Their purchases to be subject to Federal government oversight and fines issued if it is decided they breached these conditions. Our transport and utilities are to stay in Australian government ownership for the good of all Australians. Those sold must be reacquired at the same market value they were sold. Government policy is about our future, our kids future and our grand kids future. Not about what happens before the election. When things are deemed to be in the national interest Labor and the Coalition must have terms of reference to what they WILL NOT change should they come to power. This is particularly important as it comes to how we do international trade and relations. The good of the many must outweigh the greed of the few. All government policy should reflect this. Nation building is not an antiquated concept and each government must declare to the public what projects it will/is undertaking for us and future generations of Australians. Australia is not "Open for business" as our current PM likes to waffle, but should be "Open for business partnerships". Companies that are willing to take a long term view of their engagement in Australia, will be favoured accordingly both financially and in opportunity for government contracts and co-investment. No more tax cuts until it can be proved the public good is being well taken care of and paid for. In other words no buying votes which our most vulnerable members of society pay for with less services and support. Australians come first. Last edited by DanielXR8; 25-01-2014 at 03:19 AM. |
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25-01-2014, 08:29 AM | #39 | ||
If it ain't broke........
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Sunshine Coast Qld
Posts: 18,851
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That's right, All of us who are self employed make an absolute fortune.......... That famous quote " You work for yourself, you must be loaded !! " Back on topic...........
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25-01-2014, 08:45 AM | #40 | |||
Wirlankarra yanama
Join Date: May 2006
Location: God's Country
Posts: 2,103
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You will find there are many people self employed or on contracts who roll their eye's at the benefits that union people have. Having worked many years within government, I'm under no fantasy about the true worth of union labour and their trigger happy approach to down tools and go running to the union every time some non-union person outperforms them at work. As for this being my problem, you're right (but not in the way you think). I pay for my own holidays, sickies, insurances, have a mortgage, pay school fee's and for my good work I get taxed to death paying for programs to help swarms of socially disadvantaged people, academics and useless public servants (to name a few). At the end of the day there isn't much money left. So if Toyota closes, there will be more people looking for a handout from my already depleted pay packet. Finally for some reason you seem to think being self employed is a gold plated lifestyle, this is the class warfare propaganda fed by the unions to their minions. Let me take a wild stab in the dark, you're part of a union? |
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25-01-2014, 08:58 AM | #41 | ||
DJT 45 and 47 POTUS
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 7,341
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Toyota are goneski
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Falcon: 1960 - 2016 My cars Current ride 2016 FG X XR6 - 6 speed manual Previous rides 2009 FG XR6 - 6 speed auto 2006 BF MkII XT ESP - 6 speed auto 2003 BA XT V8 - 5 speed manual 1999 AU Forte - 5 speed manual 1997 EL Fairmont - 4 speed auto 1990 EAII Fairmont Ghia - 4 speed auto |
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25-01-2014, 09:15 AM | #42 | |||
Thailand Specials
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Centrefold Lounge
Posts: 49,700
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You don't HAVE to be a union member, but I reckon if you become a member it will make your life much much easier otherwise you'll be bullied constantly and people will make your life hard. Same thing with the CFMEU on construction sites, join up or you WILL cop **** 24/7. Don't be under the illusion you were with Holden and their EBA agreement when they agreed to cut conditions, but the company still announced closure anyway, the same thing will happen. Not only that but I reckon that Tony Abbot is probably talking to the heads of Toyota to get them to try to get rid of the current EBA through court, because if they do, it will set a precedent and that my friends is dangerous. They got knocked back once in court but they are trying to appeal it. |
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25-01-2014, 09:32 AM | #43 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 120
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We all took a 5% pay cut to supposedly save our car supplier company (Flexdrive Industries) and where did that get us ?, NOW REDUNDANT !
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25-01-2014, 09:41 AM | #44 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,137
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All the people I know with their own business have the missus on the books, two new lease cars, get ABN rebates, tax breaks on assets and cook the books to get child payments. You need a new accountant. I do agree that a lot of the union fights have been run and won, and the right to a safe work place should be universal but some items, esp dismissal laws need to be backed off. On union sites you basically cannot get the sack these days and that hurts productivity. |
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25-01-2014, 09:42 AM | #45 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,725
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Quote:
My union does not indulge in class warfare. We never stop work or go on strilke-we reach a deal with employer -if we cant make common ground-it goes to the industrial adjudicator.. and the decison is accepted. We all make choices about what we do in our life -each to its own. For each union eba there has been a group of managers who jointly negoiated a deal. I used to be on the management team a few years back so understand both sides. To bargain my income and conditions I would rather be part of a group of 40,000 lets say a union than be an independent contractor with the power of 1-one. But hey thats my choice, I dont want to invest my limited capital in a buisness venture as i got burned many years ago by Pyramid Building Societ and an ex wife. But hey thats just my choice. |
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25-01-2014, 10:43 AM | #46 | |||
Wirlankarra yanama
Join Date: May 2006
Location: God's Country
Posts: 2,103
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25-01-2014, 10:48 AM | #47 | |||
Thailand Specials
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Centrefold Lounge
Posts: 49,700
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I work in manufacturing as well and we're going down the gurgler, there has been no pay rises, everyones on individual contracts, theres no union or EBA. Going to blame the unions for that when we go under? All it took was a very bad choice by the management team even though we mentioned multiple times not to do it, went ahead with it anyway and it got us so far in the **** that we've lost 20 vehicles to a new competitor. If the top isn't right the rest of the company wont be either. Last edited by Franco Cozzo; 25-01-2014 at 10:54 AM. |
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25-01-2014, 11:08 AM | #48 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,725
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Yes damo -the elephant in the room of lost productivity and reduced profits is poor managers who cannot do their job well. Where I work suggestions around iniative, innovation and increased productivity or even a suggestion box are met with disinterest...despite repeated requests. Often the BEST ideas come from the floor. Managers need to see their workers as an asset and engage with them to improve their business. No worker wants to work for a failing business. |
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25-01-2014, 11:59 AM | #49 | ||
Isn't it obvious?
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: in a world of idiots
Posts: 5,383
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i must say they seem to have it pretty good
double time and a half on a sunday?????? whats wrong with the good old fashioned first two hrs is time and a galf rest is double time for sat and double for sunday getting paid to give blood? seriously....either do it on your day off or dont do it ffs i consider myself lucky getting 2.5% pay rise and getting to keep my income protection i can lieu my overtime if i wish and i can cash out my rdo hrs at time and a half that'll do me
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08 Strike G6E T. 10 Ergo G6E Sept 75 XB Falcon in mushroom beige, 3 on the tree 200cid for sale, offers in the teens |
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25-01-2014, 12:32 PM | #50 | ||
Thailand Specials
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Centrefold Lounge
Posts: 49,700
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We don't even get double time, only time and a half and they won't do time off in lieu either so I don't do any overtime, don't really need the $$$ would rather the TOIL.
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25-01-2014, 12:33 PM | #51 | ||
GT
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: SYDNEY
Posts: 9,205
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if you cant pay your bills or take a holiday , or be sick , then up your rates . if your self employed you should be on more than an employee in the same field otherwise what are you doing to yourself and trying to promote to everyone . HOW TO BE A LOSER FOR A LIVING ?
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25-01-2014, 12:39 PM | #52 | |||
Experienced Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Australasia
Posts: 7,732
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Remember this all workers regardless if self employed or employees pay mortgages, school fees taxes etc, so what is so special about you? Yes I'm a union member & proud of it but what right do you have to judge me as I'm no different to you trying to make a decent living for myself & family. |
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25-01-2014, 12:41 PM | #53 | |||
FG XR6 Ute & Sedan
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Location: Bibra Lake WA
Posts: 23,578
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__________________
regards Blue |
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25-01-2014, 12:41 PM | #54 | |||
BANNED
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,886
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You can call a doctor to make a house call, so no waiting rooms. Bulk bill ,often with no gap payment. My son is a locum doctor and does it some evenings. |
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25-01-2014, 12:49 PM | #55 | |||
GT
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: SYDNEY
Posts: 9,205
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Quote:
GREAT POST , BUT ONE SIDED . i was also self employed doing a 2nd job , whilst also being a full time employee . it's easier to be in a union working for someone . however being self employed offered more success and risk . i had to keep a level head being self employed , and i had to stand one out with union principles as unions stand and work for safety , when i was self employed i had to put my own job on the line and risk peril . what i'm saying is running a business and being self insured , rather than pretend i could do things better than the work force there , i literally went one step further towardfs safety and refusal to buckle to the company at the risk of losing contracts . i once shut down a whole factory overnight because of a breakdown , that was potentially fatal if risked by the company . the union employees onsite were scared to do this , however as i was running the shift , i locked out the plant , called the ceo , told him i'm shutting down his company , and his shift supervisor is being a dill , trying to threaten me , if he overides my lock outs the police will be called as with work cover . he was fuming over the phone and came out that night to inspect . by morning he was thanking me for doing it , and saving lives . from that point forward i was respected and had full support of the ceo and company management , and they wanted me to be there non stop . using union principles as a self employed contractor . PLEASE SPARE ME THE HOGWASH OF HOW GREAT YOU ARE AND BETTER THAN EMPLOYEES CAUSE YOU WORK FOR YOURSELF , AND BAG PEOPLE EMPLOYED . |
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25-01-2014, 01:45 PM | #56 | |||
If it ain't broke........
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Sunshine Coast Qld
Posts: 18,851
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__________________
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25-01-2014, 01:53 PM | #57 | |||
GT
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: SYDNEY
Posts: 9,205
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Quote:
i've lived both . and i think the self employed bag collective unionism and workers conditions more then the other way around . however lots of people assume working for yourslef your rich . working for yourself is harder both mentally and physically in some cases , and less rewarding also in some cases . the rubbish about paying no tax . what a joke . buying all your own equipment and paying tax insurance , employees , overtime etc , is exhausting , not to mention the fact that people totally mess you around and companies have zero loyalty and are always looking for ways to find cheaper people to replace you with . . it can offer success reward and wealth , but can also offer failure , loss and mental crisis . hats off to any self employed for many reasons . however equally unionists and employees and anyone with ethical morals . those who bag normally fall short and have no idea on both sides me thinks . |
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25-01-2014, 01:53 PM | #58 | |||
Experienced Member
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25-01-2014, 01:59 PM | #59 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Location: Melb north
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25-01-2014, 02:02 PM | #60 | ||
The BEST Falcon is the AU
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: VIC
Posts: 2,096
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Toyota is gonski because the suppliers need all 3 company's in this country to be sustainable, the fuel tank company for example is going to loose 2/3 of its business when Holden and Ford shut and they wont stay open/afloat for just one of them.
An hey back off you all, I'm quite happy to keep my two and half times on sunday, thank you FoMoCo for the extra gravy! |
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