Ford To Cut Thousands Of European Jobs, Close Factories In "Major Restructuring"

[Brazen]

Wagon was probably a smart move locally in case Mondeo ever gets culled, they can transition their fleet customers across easily enough

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

There's no plants hanging by a thread on what Ford does or doesn't sell so it's easy to tailor supplies to demand.
I'm curious about Focus and the Active variant may give them a quasi player in the compact crossovers for now,
station wagon is interesting, i wonder who signed off on that one....

ALL-NEW FORD FOCUS MLP
All-new Ford Focus Trend Hatch 8-speed AT $25,990
All-new Ford Focus ST-Line Hatch 8-speed AT $28,990
All-new Ford Focus ST-Line Wagon 8-speed AT $30,990
All-new Ford Focus Titanium Hatch 8-speed AT $34,490

They will need some decent numbers of Demos to build interest, not too many but enough to catch walk ins..

They do look nice...

Reputation begins with selling good products and standing by them....

It'll need to be good, with things like the new 2019 Cerato GT hatch with a 4cyl 1.6l turbo delivering 150kw and 265nm in 7A or 6M for $30k with 7yr warranty, V's the 3cyl 1.5l 134kw/240nm in 8A only with 5yr warranty for $29k.
Then add the $1800 for the 18" wheels in the design pack and $1250 for the driver assist pack to the Focus.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Wagon was probably a smart move locally in case Mondeo ever gets culled, they can transition their fleet customers across easily enough

Which may be sooner than we think.

New Focus S/W looks good and probably a good fit to replace Mondeo.

[Dr Smith]

I guess if Mazda was able to move up the quality perception tree counter to it's native country's standing and even in the US there is still hope for Ford Australia.

It has to start with product and then be exceeded by our experience in dealerships.

Sadly an Endura with pricing to make it say it's premium just doesn't do it for me, it's not offering high performance to give it a marketing point of difference, it lacks a 3rd row seat yet asks more than those that do, it's interior isn't better than a CX9/CX8.

What is it's marketing point of difference?

Now say an Explorer and all us Territory owners "may" have something aspirational to aim for if we want to stay seated behind a blue oval badge.

Say Lincoln and my deposit is already waiting.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

It'll need to be good, with things like the new 2019 Cerato GT hatch with a 4cyl 1.6l turbo delivering 150kw and 265nm in 7A or 6M for $30k with 7yr warranty, V's the 3cyl 1.5l 134kw/240nm in 8A only with 5yr warranty for $29k.
Then add the $1800 for the 18" wheels in the design pack and $1250 for the driver assist pack to the Focus.

Put it this way, you might be right with price being a tough ask up against something like the Cerato GT
but I wonder if the feel of the ST line and how it does everything will sell it, Lane centre sounds fascinating...

https://www.carsales.com.au/editoria...review-116080/

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

I guess if Mazda was able to move up the quality perception tree counter to it's native country's standing and even in the US there is still hope for Ford Australia.

It has to start with product and then be exceeded by our experience in dealerships.

They've gotta start somewhere, I just think that Ford expects too much at those higher price points.

Sadly an Endura with pricing to make it say it's premium just doesn't do it for me, it's not offering high performance to give it a marketing point of difference, it lacks a 3rd row seat yet asks more than those that do, it's interior isn't better than a CX9/CX8.

What is it's marketing point of difference?

Now say an Explorer and all us Territory owners "may" have something aspirational to aim for if we want to stay seated behind a blue oval badge.

Say Lincoln and my deposit is already waiting.

Ford is selecting almost off the shelf UK RHD models for our market,
sometimes the perception and pricing don't match up too well.

Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got till it's gone..

[Dr Smith]

Once the warranties over I might just ring around and spend a few grand on the Terry, try and get sync3, see my neighbouring trim expert and cover over the some of the black interior as I miss my cashmere option of the SZ1 and pretend I'm in a Lincoln...

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

'Insert how wonderful a finacial decision it was to pull local production'

Sadly it was a better financial decision, if Toyota couldn't make it happen even with 80% exports how on Earth could Ford building local-only vehicles or if building a global vehicle be able to match any Asian factory for costs if it tried.

I have wondered however if Ford Aust could have been chosen to build all RHD vehicles for the Ford global market could that have worked. It would have needed to be spectacularly efficient, say building RHD Edges, F-150's, Explorers, Lincolns, I'm sure the former FoMoCo Aust. production engineers can explain this is impossible...and I don't think a Mustang would be the same if build outside USA.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

Sadly it was a better financial decision, if Toyota couldn't make it happen even with 80% exports how on Earth could Ford building local-only vehicles or if building a global vehicle be able to match any Asian factory for costs if it tried.

Totally agreed, but when you wander in to your local Ford dealer to replace your 7 seat territory for $40kish and theres nothing on offer, the last thing i'd be thinking of is how well the share holders must be doing now.

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Totally agreed, but when you wander in to your local Ford dealer to replace your 7 seat territory for $40kish and theres nothing on offer, the last thing i'd be thinking of is how well the share holders must be doing now.

So true, our SZII Terry will be 3 yrs in Feb 2020, maybe have 32,000Km (I bought one of last 2 new AWD's the local dealer had) it'll be fully paid out...and I'm already thinking...

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Totally agreed, but when you wander in to your local Ford dealer to replace your 7 seat territory for $40kish and theres nothing on offer, the last thing i'd be thinking of is how well the share holders must be doing now.

Isn't that just the dilemma. My solution is get one of the last petrol AWDs (full time AWD as per my rants) with as few kms as possible, pay 15, hold back 5 for any maintenance, keep 20.

That should last me until Explorer and Expedition and Lincolns are here (haha)

Edit: the shareholders are getting roasted, just look at the chart on NYSE

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Totally agreed, but when you wander in to your local Ford dealer to replace your 7 seat territory for $40kish and theres nothing on offer, the last thing i'd be thinking of is how well the share holders must be doing now.

I think you'd struggle to get anything like a Territory replacement for $40K,
that's why Ford stopped making them...

What he meant by shareholders getting roasted is that for all the changes done,
Ford has seen very little improvement in profitability outside of the US.

For all that pain and suffering we went through, they could have kept
Territory and Falcon going with corporate engines, gearboxes and IRS.
Those two, Ranger and Mustang would have held the ship together.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

I think you'd struggle to get anything like a Territory replacement for $40K,
that's why Ford stopped making them...

What he meant by shareholders getting roasted is that for all the changes done,
Ford has seen very little improvement in profitability outside of the US.

For all that pain and suffering we went through, they could have kept
Territory and Falcon going with corporate engines, gearboxes and IRS.
Those two, Ranger and Mustang would have held the ship together.

And this is exactly what makes it all the more hard to swallow, as i said in the vfacts thread, 2018 saw less Ford sales than in the final full year of Falcon/Territory manufacture, so for all the pain and loss, the brand is probably no better off for the exercise.

We let them off the hook too easily, rather than public backlash at the thought of closing down people simply applauded the decision as a financial masterstroke, which it may have appeared, but when 5 years later you find yourself back to square one minus the jobs and product lineup you have to ask was it all worth it.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

And this is exactly what makes it all the more hard to swallow, as i said in the vfacts thread, 2018 saw less Ford sales than in the final full year of Falcon/Territory manufacture, so for all the pain and loss, the brand is probably no better off for the exercise.

We let them off the hook too easily, rather than public backlash at the thought of closing down people simply applauded the decision as a financial masterstroke, which it may have appeared, but when 5 years later you find yourself back to square one minus the jobs and product lineup you have to ask was it all worth it.

There was no one here declaring it a master stroke, more like resignation that the day would eventually come.

Sections of the press loosely aligned with Newscorp were cheering that govt support for local manufacturing
would stop, simply from a hard headed ultra right wing perspective with zero understanding of how much
business activity was created here, the whole lot written off as almost a nothing / worthless venture.

To this day, I believe that Ford ending production began the chain reaction of Holden and Toyota calling it quits

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

There was no one here declaring it a master stroke, more like resignation that the day would eventually come.

Oh no, there most certainly was because i had pleanty of people bashing me on here for suggesting we were giving up too easily at the time using the financial angle as their reasoning.
They said we'd get so many new offerings from the global stable which would more than make up for what we were to lose, but forgive me if im wrong, i dont see anything other than what we already had setting the charts alight.

No, its exactly as you said before, dont it always seem to go, that you dont know what you've got till its gone.

[Sprintey]

Yeah it's a bitter pill to swallow. Imagine broady still going with Rangers and Territories, the Terrys into a new generation architecture. Falcon's time had come to be sure. But it will prove useful in marketing courses at uni in the future to illustrate what happens to your hallmark product if you drastically slow marketing it.

Oh well, we had One Ford and it kind-of sort-of made available global models for all individual markets (hasn't worked), shut down Australia, let Brazil keep unique models, now Europe on the chopping block, multiple US factories and almost all passenger models on the chopping block. And local sales are lower than last full year of Falcon/Territory production too.

They (Ford) won't get a chance to breathe - huge shifts already occurring as electric/autonomous/ride share is being developed and will be rolled out; and at the same time the Everything bubble is coming to an end - car sales falling hard in Europe, US, China, and here as the central banks have turned off the easy money spigot and interest rates rise globally.

The one sanguine bit is the new US product, a desirable series of platforms and logical powertrain strategy is bearing fruit.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

Sadly it was a better financial decision, if Toyota couldn't make it happen even with 80% exports how on Earth could Ford building local-only vehicles or if building a global vehicle be able to match any Asian factory for costs if it tried.

I have wondered however if Ford Aust could have been chosen to build all RHD vehicles for the Ford global market could that have worked. It would have needed to be spectacularly efficient, say building RHD Edges, F-150's, Explorers, Lincolns, I'm sure the former FoMoCo Aust. production engineers can explain this is impossible...and I don't think a Mustang would be the same if build outside USA.

Wouldn't have worked, cause Broady was maxed out at about 100,000 cars a year, and competing factories can make 200,000 to 250,000 cars a year.

It was one of the biggest factors to why the efficiency of broady just couldn't compete with the new super factories. That an electricity costs here are insane now, when we used to have electricity prices that were some of the lowest in the world, and used to be a big advantage for FoA.

Plus adding too many different models just increases complexity and requires a lot more storage space. As it was Broady was tapped out in wheel storage to feed the line for example. Plain and simple broady was built to make about 100,000 cars a year and trying to make the plant build more would either require massive amounts of money, or was just about impossible without starting again.

[jpd80]

I get that but I bet that Ford also neatly forgot about the high transaction price it now extracts from customers,
we thought that $60K-$80K FPVs were pushing the limit a few years ago but look at the people lining up for what's
basically mid to upper Ranger, Everest and Mustang, all of them kicking in at prices that would make people's eyes water..

Yeah, the valuable products are now made elsewhere and precisely where the profit and value adding jobs are too..
I know that Asia does not like reverse export - import of vehicles but our market (Aus/NZ and SAF) surely there's
an opportunity for one RHD flex plant putting out Escape, Edge, Explorer and Mustang, four products with good ATPs.
Let Thailand have Ranger/Everest.


Maybe I should have pre-empted the above post with One Ford being great for boosting profit but
absolutely terrible in that it took away Ford's regional voice, not everyone likes vanilla milkshakes.

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by jpd80

I get that but I bet that Ford also neatly forgot about the high transaction price it now extracts from customers,
we thought that $60K-$80K FPVs were pushing the limit a few years ago but look at the people lining up for what's
basically mid to upper Ranger, Everest and Mustang, all of them kicking in at prices that would make people's eyes water..

Yeah, the valuable products are now made elsewhere and precisely where the profit and value adding jobs are too..
I know that Asia does not like reverse export - import of vehicles but our market (Aus/NZ and SAF) surely there's
an opportunity for one RHD flex plant putting out Escape, Edge, Explorer and Mustang, four products with good ATPs.
Let Thailand have Ranger/Everest.


Maybe I should have pre-empted the above post with One Ford being great for boosting profit but
absolutely terrible in that it took away Ford's regional voice, not everyone likes vanilla milkshakes.

Now hold on one minute Mr jpd80, don't ever knock the vanilla milkshake, it's the core drink that always tastes good no matter what...especially when your daughter or wife orders some "new age" drink that only a botanist could describe and after a few sips turns to you and says "would you like to have some of mine while I have some of your vanilla milkshake" aka this tastes crap...

[BENT_8]

I see the powers that be have been through the thread with the broom, didnt even delete the post and leave a reason, just wiped it like it was never there.
Probably should have removed Dr smiths post #38 which quoted my post if you're trying to remove all trace..

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

I see the powers that be have been through the thread with the broom, didnt even delete the post and leave a reason, just wiped it like it was never there.
Probably should have removed Dr smiths post #38 which quoted my post if you're trying to remove all trace..

Cannot see why anything was unacceptable as I think we've all just been sharing frank thoughts and definitely stated our opinions as just that in a civilized manner.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

Cannot see why anything was unacceptable as I think we've all just been sharing frank thoughts and definitely stated our opinions as just that in a civilized manner.

Truth hurts depending on who's telling it?

[kevino]

Has been a good discussion.

Maybe FOA (former ceo Mark Field) let the regions outside the USA drift?

To lose a billion in Europe over 5 years suggest maybe changes should have been made earlier in Europe than June 2019..

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by kevino

Has been a good discussion.

Maybe FOA (former ceo Mark Field) let the regions outside the USA drift?

To lose a billion in Europe over 5 years suggest maybe changes should have been made earlier in Europe than June 2019..

They did send Geoff Polites there as a VP after his Oz posting however Fields suddenly sent him to JLR and profits returned before Tata bought it. I think if he hadn't of sadly died he may have stayed with JLR but he had the knack of selling cars that people wanted.
Our dog almost tripped him up once while he was jogging along the foreshore in bayside Melb...think he actually apologised..

[roddy1960]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

My local Dealer has the new Focus ST Line on the lot, looks awesome.

Obviously the initial wave will include Dealer registered demo's so we'll have to wait a good 6 months to see what the punters think.

They're pretty nice ...They're supposed to go like a cut cat in the ST etc. models too and full of tech .



Here's a general review of the new Focus .The one he's driving is the 4 cylinder 1.5 litre diesel in think .,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypu5vCVCTbE .

Not a bad jigger .. I suppose ours are Euro spec of course .

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by kevino

Has been a good discussion.

Maybe FOA (former ceo Mark Field) let the regions outside the USA drift?

To lose a billion in Europe over 5 years suggest maybe changes should have been made earlier in Europe than June 2019..

How exactly did they lose a Bn in Europer over the last 5 years? Passenger cars tanking, diesel being regulated out? Or is there a massive consumer shift against who they are/what they sell?

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Truth hurts depending on who's telling it?

You do go out of your way fishing for reactions though. That's what you want isn't it?

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

How exactly did they lose a Bn in Europer over the last 5 years? Passenger cars tanking, diesel being regulated out? Or is there a massive consumer shift against who they are/what they sell?

Europe is an extremely tough market to make money. Has been for years. GM had enough and sold Opal/Vauxhall after losing billions. Many of them are doing it tough. Jaguar/LR just cut a few thousand jobs. Not exactly sure why it is so hard there though.

Ford had the number 1, 2 and 7 highest selling cars in Fiesta, Focus and Kuga, and the highest selling commercial vehicles and still lost money. Brexit and the diesel regs are causing issues too.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

You do go out of your way fishing for reactions though. That's what you want isn't it?

No, not at all, although i will admit i am often controversial because i say what many think and are too scared of backlash to express.
The devils advocate to an extent you could say.

I notice you quite often make it personal though dont you, i mean this has been a civil discussion and then you stroll in and start pointing fingers at anyone who shares an alternative opinion to your own.

You spend most of your time on this forum either bashing the opposition in every thread they appear in, or denouncing anyone with a gripe in a thread about your beloved.

News flash, being a fan of Ford doesnt always mean you cant appreciate what others have to offer or that ford are perfect at everything.

Post deleted in 5..4..3..

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

How exactly did they lose a Bn in Europer over the last 5 years? Passenger cars tanking, diesel being regulated out? Or is there a massive consumer shift against who they are/what they sell?

There would be some costs there involved with the closure of the plant in Genk Belgium I would assume...edit Dec 2014 Genk closed and estimated cost at $US750million