Cars you could own now and will be laughing in 20 years with

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Would still be much easier than a model T. They would be a bastard of a thing to drive.

Agreed. Never driven one but they had an (i think it was Top Gear) episode where they wanted to find out when the 3 pedals as we know today came into being and they showed the complexity of the Model T. How that was a good idea is beyond me!

Originally Posted by GasoLane

Or trying to work out how to start a 1418 Benz?Lack of hand and foot coordination?

Mostly lack of foot and foot coordination. Typically, when they stop, they forget to press the clutch and just put their foot on the brake till it stops/stalls.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by bb_zetec

I think Manual will exist for 4WD and Performance applications...the mainstream will eventually die out due to lack of sales.

The landcruiser troopcarrier is an example...are they even made in automatic?

Interesting that you mention that. Most have figured out that going off road is better with an Auto as you never lose drive (when shifting gears) and literally all performance cars have moved to Auto because modern Autos are faster and more fuel efficient. There is literally 2 cars under $100k AUD that come in a manual and one is dead in the water, Mustang and Camaro. VW just ditched the manual with the next gen Golf as well. The premium segment is almost entirely Autos bar for maybe the Aston Martin Vantage that can be had with a Manual and a few Porsche models here and there.

Also, you're one of the few that make the switch and do so effectively by the sounds of it. Its not something that happens often.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by kypez

Agreed. Never driven one but they had an (i think it was Top Gear) episode where they wanted to find out when the 3 pedals as we know today came into being and they showed the complexity of the Model T. How that was a good idea is beyond me!



Mostly lack of foot and foot coordination. Typically, when they stop, they forget to press the clutch and just put their foot on the brake till it stops/stalls.

Yeah I saw that episode.

But the current 3 pedal arrangement (or 2 if auto) didn't become mainstream till the 30's. Even though their was a one year only Cadillac that had that arrangement in about 1917, or there about.

Before then there were a number of different ways the manufacturers had in terms of pedal, steering and gear changing arrangements. Would have made it a real pain to switch from car to car, not knowing how they were set up. Cause they were mostly all different.

[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by kypez

Interesting that you mention that. Most have figured out that going off road is better with an Auto as you never lose drive (when shifting gears) ......

From someone who has been driving/owning four wheel drives for over 40 years, not one of them an Auto, and also have plenty of family and friends that have done the same, I feel I need to correct the above statement....

Most have figured out that picking the right gear to start with and picking the right time to shift have zero problems at all, those that have never been able to master the operation (or can't be assed) have moved to Auto's....

[FTE217]

Originally Posted by DJR-351

From someone who has been driving/owning four wheel drives for over 40 years, not one of them an Auto, and also have plenty of family and friends that have done the same, I feel I need to correct the above statement....

Most have figured out that picking the right gear to start with and picking the right time to shift have zero problems at all, those that have never been able to master the operation (or can't be assed) have moved to Auto's....

+1, I'm involved with 4x4 companies and have/had one as a daily.
Stick is still preferred by many many users, the obvious auto 4x4 owner is the "look at me" newbies.

[FTE217]

Sprintey good thread.

OH look out the next big thing EV's will kill ICE cars values.
Well obviously the garden varieties like anything BUT isn't this the same as every big "change" that has occured in the past - everything prior is outdated not loved or wanted.
Well it baffles me over the last 50yrs how much some cars are still worth decade by decade.
Yep they are so far behind the times its not funny BUT there is and will always be a % of humans that keep something old alive, and that will be happenning long into EV's coming into our worlds.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by DJR-351

From someone who has been driving/owning four wheel drives for over 40 years, not one of them an Auto, and also have plenty of family and friends that have done the same, I feel I need to correct the above statement....

Most have figured out that picking the right gear to start with and picking the right time to shift have zero problems at all, those that have never been able to master the operation (or can't be assed) have moved to Auto's....

Fair enough. But see, you have to learn more to do that. And a lot more thought process. The Auto just makes off roading easier. Less chances of getting bogged as well as you keep drive constant. Its just easier with an Auto and is the general consensus in the circles I've met and online reviews. I love my manuals but autos are the direction people are moving for their ease of use

Its like saying Manuals are fun in Sydney Traffic. Sure, Manuals are fun but lets be honest, in Sydney traffic, we've all wished for an Auto some days.

Done Fraser in both an Auto and Manual and can't say one was better than the other. It was just easier in the Auto. Low Range in manual did nothing for me either!

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by kypez

Done Fraser in both an Auto and Manual and can't say one was better than the other. It was just easier in the Auto.

And you can drink your coffee and change gear at the same time

[DJR-351]

My apologies, I'm forever discounting the Latte sipping set...

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by DJR-351

My apologies, I'm forever discounting the Latte sipping set...

No latte, but I could drink the roadhouse coffee whilst driving through towns

[kypez]

Originally Posted by FTE217

Yep they are so far behind the times its not funny BUT there is and will always be a % of humans that keep something old alive, and that will be happenning long into EV's coming into our worlds.

The difference is the story is lost. There are fewer people talking about the Falcon story to their kids and the next generation wont even know what they're about. I don't think my GTF will be worth much in 20 years. Nor the Mach 1 when I get it and I plan to keep it for that time.

Look at my BA XR8 or BA GT's. They haven't made any money for the buyers. Even the TS still sell for below what they cost new even with the COVID tax.

Through in inflation, even if you sold for what you bought, you're behind.

The ones that make money are the exotics! The GTHO and cars like that. Even a regular Hardtop that sells for $150k is still not ahead when you consider the other costs to keep it going for the 50 odd years.

So you'd need to find something really special. Really special.

[kcodezd]

I bought my kids a fiat with manual last year, specifically to teach them how to drive a manual, as every other car I have is an auto. My 17 year old, the oldest of 4 boys, really is struggling to grasp the concept. Which really s#### me to tears. It really is a generational thing isn’t it. They can press buttons on a small plastic controller, like you would not believe. But add three pedals and only two feet, LOOK OUT.

[jstanovic]

Originally Posted by DJR-351

From someone who has been driving/owning four wheel drives for over 40 years, not one of them an Auto, and also have plenty of family and friends that have done the same, I feel I need to correct the above statement....

Most have figured out that picking the right gear to start with and picking the right time to shift have zero problems at all, those that have never been able to master the operation (or can't be assed) have moved to Auto's....

Often I come to a sand dune where a bit of speed/momentum is needed, then 2/3 the way up there is a sharp turn before climbing to the top. Unless you have loads of power/torque most 4x4s will bog down when negotiating the turn and then come to a stop. With the auto, when you get to the turn just flick it down to 2nd and the continuous momentum gets you to the top, nice and easy.

Go exploring the yeagerup dunes in WA and you will see it all the time. Not saying it can’t be done in a manual but the auto makes it so much easier with less track damage as a bonus. Or you’re just driving the easy dunes haha!!

[bb_zetec]

Originally Posted by kypez

Also, you're one of the few that make the switch and do so effectively by the sounds of it. Its not something that happens often.

The real reason i need to get into a manual was back then we had two cars, and being lowly paid at the time my girlfriend (who now is my wife) had a manual Mazda 121.

My ED falcon had an engine problem so we offloaded that and i had to learn quick smart how to drive a Manual or not drive any car at all.

I think it takes time and patience which most people do not have anymore...hell people even yell when their coffee is 5 minutes late after ordering it.

As i said before i enjoy them now, bar stop-start traffic and its good to know that you can hop into any vehicle and not worry if you can drive it or not.

I think it is also a good theft deterrent against 17 year old hodlums that like stealing cars for a joyride???

[kypez]

Originally Posted by GasoLane

And you can drink your coffee and change gear at the same time

You let people (and yourself) drink coffee in your car?! You philistine! No food or liquids other than Water allowed in my cars!

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by kypez

You let people (and yourself) drink coffee in your car?! You philistine! No food or liquids other than Water allowed in my cars!

That was in the Truck, saves time

[Rob 351]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Would still be much easier than a model T. They would be a bastard of a thing to drive.

I own a 1926 Model and believe it or not, when you get used to it, they are very simple. You don’t really touch the mixture when you have it set in the sweet spot, timing when going you rarely touch also when driving unless maybe coming to a steep hill..
The later ones like mine are fairly easy to start with the electric starter. Give her a bit of throttle on the left, retard your spark on the right, hit the starter and then just advance you timing to suit..
Push your handbrake half forward and that puts you in low gear, then simply push your left pedal to the floor and adjust your speed with your hand throttle. To go into top gear, you push your handbrake fully forward and take you foot of the left peddle and once again adjust your speed with the hand throttle..
Might sound complicated but it’s actually not and I must admit driving a Model T Ford is one of the more enjoyable experiences driving a motor car..
Anyone who can drive a manual car, normally I can teach the to drive a Model T within half an hour. Trying to teach someone to drive a manual H pattern car after driving auto’s most of the time.. Hopeless! And wouldn’t even bother with the T..

[pottery beige]

vt commo wagon with fuel flap and no soggy roof lining

[FairmontGS]

Originally Posted by pottery beige

vt commo wagon with fuel flap and no soggy roof lining

#p00f

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by FairmontGS

#p00f

i have four spare fuel flaps !!

[5thFordWA]

Most of the talk above is about Falcon type vehicles, and what they might be worth in 20 years.

I read an article a few years ago and it really made me think. It was saying the wealthy middle-aged businessman paying oodles for the 1971 GTHO is really buying his teenage dream car, now he can afford it.

But the question was what will today's teens and twenties want in 20 years time, what is their dream car now?
The suggested answer was the younger gen hardly know what a GT Falcon is, let alone want one. Their dreams are all about high performance turbos, Japanese probably, and listing cars like WRX, Nissan, Mitsubishi EVOs, etc. And for a lot of that gen they don't have the money to buy one now, or maybe raising the family is coming first (as it was for most of us), and one day they will find they have some spare cash and lust after a restored WRX or EVO, and pay big money for it.

Mind you, there are plenty of these on the road, and not so many special low production models like the GTHO, but there were plenty of GTs on the road when I was 20 too (50 years ago).

Anyway, the article was good for me, I walked out to the back carport and started up my 2004 Subi WRX (Petter Solberg Special Edition), in absolutely original trim, no mods, even has the original exhaust system, no engine chip, classic Subaru Blue and in pristine body condition. I bought it off my son when it was 10 years old, no body damage, no major mechanical repairs, currently on 150k kms. When I bought it I joined the WRX club, and the first question was what mods has it got? When I said none, and it's not getting any, the club guys laughingly said it will end up being the only WRX around that hasn't been modified - it's like a disease with these guys - they have to modify. Well, if it's the only original one around, I'm not going to complain when I go to sell it, although I'll probably leave it back to my son in the end. I didn't buy it as an investment, I bought it because I love driving it, and when I retired I was going to restore a fairly recent sports car or something, and when the WRX was available I grabbed it. So far it's worth about 2/3 what I paid for it, but who knows in 20 years time, my grandson certainly has his eye on it!

IMO, that's the type of car which will regain value before the next wave which will be Electrics.

Oh, that I still had the 289 XR in my possession!

Just dreaming, eh?

Cheers.

[burnz]

Originally Posted by pottery beige

vt commo wagon with fuel flap and no soggy roof lining

not going to happen!!

[5thFordWA]

Originally Posted by Rob 351

I own a 1926 Model and believe it or not, when you get used to it, they are very simple. You don’t really touch the mixture when you have it set in the sweet spot, timing when going you rarely touch also when driving unless maybe coming to a steep hill..
The later ones like mine are fairly easy to start with the electric starter. Give her a bit of throttle on the left, retard your spark on the right, hit the starter and then just advance you timing to suit..
Push your handbrake half forward and that puts you in low gear, then simply push your left pedal to the floor and adjust your speed with your hand throttle. To go into top gear, you push your handbrake fully forward and take you foot of the left peddle and once again adjust your speed with the hand throttle..
Might sound complicated but it’s actually not and I must admit driving a Model T Ford is one of the more enjoyable experiences driving a motor car..
Anyone who can drive a manual car, normally I can teach the to drive a Model T within half an hour. Trying to teach someone to drive a manual H pattern car after driving auto’s most of the time.. Hopeless! And wouldn’t even bother with the T..

You could probably explain it better, but for the uninitiated, and I haven't seen a Model T gearbox for many years, aren't they basically a planetary gear system (like an auto trans) with the bands controlling the planetary gears applied by foot and hand leverage, instead of hydraulically as in the auto trans. Simple in design, but quite different in control application to the gear type gearboxes, which at the time were crash gears (no synchromesh) and hard to drive anyway, so the Model T was considered easy.

My Dad was brought up with Model T's and he had a few stories, the most common being reversing up steep hills as the fuel was gravity fed - is that correct?

You've got a special car there my friend!

Cheers.

[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by jstanovic

Often I come to a sand dune where a bit of speed/momentum is needed, then 2/3 the way up there is a sharp turn before climbing to the top. Unless you have loads of power/torque most 4x4s will bog down when negotiating the turn and then come to a stop. With the auto, when you get to the turn just flick it down to 2nd and the continuous momentum gets you to the top, nice and easy.

Go exploring the yeagerup dunes in WA and you will see it all the time. Not saying it can’t be done in a manual but the auto makes it so much easier with less track damage as a bonus. Or you’re just driving the easy dunes haha!!

Lol! I'm from Southern WA, (Lake Grace) we did plenty of trips to the Yeagerup Dunes back in the late 70s early 80s with 40/45 Series Landcruisers when auto 4wd was unheard of, you don't honestly believe that none of this was possible before the auto was implemented do you? haha!!

[jstanovic]

Originally Posted by DJR-351

Lol! I'm from Southern WA, (Lake Grace) we did plenty of trips to the Yeagerup Dunes back in the late 70s early 80s with 40/45 Series Landcruisers when auto 4wd was unheard of, you don't honestly believe that none of this was possible before the auto was implemented do you? haha!!

No of course not, but auto makes almost every aspect of 4x4ing easier. As you say(and driving the old cruisers you would know) if you’re not in the right gear you are going to struggle up some sand dunes. Auto pretty much negates this and you can get up in one go rather than repeated goes. Whether or not that’s a good thing, you can decide for yourself!!

I’ve had my share of manual 4x4s over the last 20yrs, wouldn’t go back to manual now.

[Mowdit]

A while back I bought a rodded 1928 A model, it originally cost $120k to have it built, I paid half of that for it, I'd like to think it's gone back up in value a little.

Young people love it because it is shiny, loud and cool
Older people respect it because they know what it is

Will it's value ever be what it cost to build, I doubt it, the cost of fuel will likely put an end to being able to afford to drive it.....

[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by jstanovic

No of course not, but auto makes almost every aspect of 4x4ing easier. As you say(and driving the old cruisers you would know) if you’re not in the right gear you are going to struggle up some sand dunes. Auto pretty much negates this and you can get up in one go rather than repeated goes. Whether or not that’s a good thing, you can decide for yourself!!

I’ve had my share of manual 4x4s over the last 20yrs, wouldn’t go back to manual now.

My daily driver(s) are still a Landcruiser (VDJ79R or HZJ75) and even today you cannot buy one with an auto…….

I’ve never stated it’s any harder or easier to drive one or the other, but I do take a big exception when I hear some still wet behind the ears twit (not you ) state that you won’t be able to drive (insert track) unless you’re in an auto, truth of it is there is nowhere in Aus that an auto can go that a manual has not already been, it may be easier and you don’t have to use your noggin with an auto, but I will trust the manual gearbox to do the job over an auto and get me home every day…..

I won’t get into the ruined long weekend recovering the auto Landcruiser on Eighty Mile Beach…..

[kypez]

Originally Posted by DJR-351

but I will trust the manual gearbox to do the job over an auto and get me home every day…..

I won’t get into the ruined long weekend recovering the auto Landcruiser on Eighty Mile Beach…..

This is why I can't wait for EV's with no gearbox! 100% torque at 0 RPM. No need for transfer case either. Though charging will be interesting in the more remote areas but would work for my use cases like Fraser!

[hayseed]

Originally Posted by 5thFordWA

My Dad was brought up with Model T's and he had a few stories, the most common being reversing up steep hills as the fuel was gravity fed - is that correct?
.

Also Reverse gear is Lower than First.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by GasoLane

No latte, but I could drink the roadhouse coffee whilst driving through towns

Steering wheel attendant.