Do you think Elon is sinking Tesla?

[Travesty]

Originally Posted by kypez

It's only interesting if you have never changed your opinion about something in your life which is sad in itself. This isn't a religion. Heck, I said I'd never own an EV in my life and would only drive V8's. It's good to have your beliefs challenged and to change your opinions when presented with new information.

Well that's just it, you and I see EV's agnostically but vested interests turned science and tech into religious zealotry, with the associated acolytes given oxygen and airtime beyond the usual news cycle timeframes. The takeup in EV cars wasn't due to market demands, it was driven by the "EV is good, ICE is bad" narrative/mantra. When the market wised up to the con...

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Travesty

Well that's just it, you and I see EV's agnostically but vested interests turned science and tech into religious zealotry, with the associated acolytes given oxygen and airtime beyond the usual news cycle timeframes. The takeup in EV cars wasn't due to market demands, it was driven by the "EV is good, ICE is bad" narrative/mantra. When the market wised up to the con...

Might have started that way but it has changed. The new buyers are buying them due to a change in market demand. People want cheap running costs and demand is purely driven by those people now. It's why they keep buying Teslas because they are still the cheapest to own and operate (if I had a dollar for everytime someone told me they bought a Tesla because of no annual servicing, I could've bought another Tesla).

This should equally be an elephant in the room, the far right conservative Proud Boys and other groups are all protesting in defence of Tesla after they were the ones rolling coal, keying cars and harassing Tesla owners.

https://www.wired.com/story/proud-bo...eslas-defense/

[XR Martin]

Tesla cars was always a tax dodge anyway, all their profits come from carbon credits.
It was never about making money from selling the actual product.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by XR Martin

Tesla cars was always a tax dodge anyway, all their profits come from carbon credits.
It was never about making money from selling the actual product.

But they make the most profit per car sold without the carbon credits. Just on the vehicle alone.

[Interceptor]

Originally Posted by kypez

It's only interesting if you have never changed your opinion about something in your life which is sad in itself. This isn't a religion.

Whats funny is the *reason* they've changed their opinion re: Tesla.

If Elon hadnt shown support for Trump, and had then gotten in on the DoGE team, the liberal crowd would still be in love with Tesla.

[cs123]

Originally Posted by Interceptor

Whats funny is the *reason* they've changed their opinion re: Tesla.

If Elon hadnt shown support for Trump, and had then gotten in on the DoGE team, the liberal crowd would still be in love with Tesla.

Maybe in the USA. In Germany there are other reasons.

And it is fine for people to not buy Tesla based on their opinion of Musk. It is human nature.

People don't support things they don't like. You do it, I do it, everyone does it.

[Interceptor]

Originally Posted by cs123

Maybe in the USA. In Germany there are other reasons.

Yes, but OP's question was "Do you think Elon is sinking Tesla"

As an entity, it can be acknowledged that maybe Tesla as a manufacturer/brand isnt keeping up to shifting trends & competition in the EV market, and yes, that may well be the reason the company is losing market share worldwide, but I think Elon's direct impact on that is questionable, he might be the CEO & the face/name everyone associates with the company, but he isnt the dictator of all things Tesla.

Originally Posted by cs123

People don't support things they don't like. You do it, I do it, everyone does it.

Considering the reports of people vandalising Tesla's products & infrastructure, even going so far as to sell their Tesla's because of their political leanings, in the US, it could be argued that Musk's involvement with Trump & DoGE is harmful to the Tesla brand.

The logic behind it, like the people attacking tesla, is still stupid though.....

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Interceptor

Whats funny is the *reason* they've changed their opinion re: Tesla.



If Elon hadnt shown support for Trump, and had then gotten in on the DoGE team, the liberal crowd would still be in love with Tesla.

Wouldn't it be equally funny then that the only reason the Proud Boys changed their "reason" for defending the brand now being the exact same reason?

The logic behind it, like the people attacking tesla, is still stupid though.....

The right people used to set fire to Tesla chargers, knock them over, block them with their Utes, key them, rolling coal, etc... It was funny then apparently.

[Interceptor]

Originally Posted by kypez

Wouldn't it be equally funny then that the only reason the Proud Boys changed their "reason" for defending the brand now being the exact same reason?

Were the "proud boys" ever attacking tesla(s)?

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Interceptor

Were the "proud boys" ever attacking tesla(s)?

Yes, they were. Plenty of damage to Teslas over the years by people who claim to be associated with them and the right. They took Teslas (due to EV mandates) as a threat to their freedoms.

[Interceptor]

Originally Posted by kypez

The right people used to set fire to Tesla chargers, knock them over, block them with their Utes, key them, rolling coal, etc... It was funny then apparently.

And you're saying people with EV's never blocked the pumps at servos?

EV & hybrid owners are worse than vegan bloody crossfitters, if you think the people blocking chargers etc are bad, you need to move somewhere where EV's are common, their self righteous virtue signalling will drive you nuts.

No different to the "renewable energy crowd" who are hell bent that solar panels & wind turbines are worth it regardless of the cost to the consumer & long term harm tot he environment

[XR Martin]

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Interceptor

And you're saying people with EV's never blocked the pumps at servos?



EV & hybrid owners are worse than vegan bloody crossfitters, if you think the people blocking chargers etc are bad, you need to move somewhere where EV's are common, their self righteous virtue signalling will drive you nuts.



No different to the "renewable energy crowd" who are hell bent that solar panels & wind turbines are worth it regardless of the cost to the consumer & long term harm tot he environment

Ok, you have gone off the deep end big time. And no, there haven't been any coordinated efforts like that to block servos. Just where people are buying fuel for the mowers, etc.

The closest you'll find is 12 people in Croatia in 2019 that staged a single protest (I'd hardly call that news worthy or an issue). That's about it.

But your response is quite funny to see how triggered people can be on both sides.

[Interceptor]

Originally Posted by kypez

Ok, you have gone off the deep end big time. And no, there haven't been any coordinated efforts like that to block servos. Just where people are buying fuel for the mowers, etc.

The closest you'll find is 12 people in Croatia in 2019 that staged a single protest. That's about it.

But your response is quite funny to see how triggered people can be on both sides.

The same could be said about the ICE owners blocking chargers, rolling coal, etc.....

But then you'd have to admit to being a hypocrite, wouldnt you.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Interceptor

The same could be said about the ICE owners blocking chargers, rolling coal, etc.....



But then you'd have to admit to being a hypocrite, wouldnt you.

You really are triggered here. I'm sorry for you.

If you read the context again, you'll understand why I mentioned those incidents. If you can't, that's on you not me.

Nothing I've said is hypocritical at any point.

[uranium_death]

Originally Posted by b0son

The funny thing is only a couple of years ago, some had proclaimed Tesla's position insurmountable. Not only has it been mounted, it looks like it's getting f#@!ed

No company ever has permanency in a singular state without change.

IBM changed their direction
Apple changed their direction
Google are always adapting
Fossil fuel/oil companies are now energy companies
Nokia lost their market dominance in phones and had to look elsewhere

Car companies have to also keep changing to meet market demands, or they die.

Kodak, Blockbuster Video etc. had a massive market share in ageing industries, failed to adapt, and died.

Tesla benefited from a lack of competition in the pure-electric market but with more and cheaper options, I'd have thought it's logical that they'd face some difficulty/challenges, Elon aside.

I also think the burning/vandalism of Tesla anything is idiotic, pointless, and childish.

Do you buy Nestle products? The former CEO Peter Brabeck-Letmathe at one point stated that he didn't think water is a human right. That's the biggest dick move I've ever heard. Are you going to burn cans of Milo in the supermarket now?

You need to separate Elon's views and personality with his product. If you don't like the product, don't buy it. If other people choose to, leave their property and choices alone and live your own life in whatever misery you choose.

I personally think Elon is a dick, but I really like the fact that he's invested in exploring new technology and is willing to go where few others are prepared to. Plenty of people say things and do nothing. Elon is at least prepared to give things a shot.

[simon varley]

Originally Posted by Interceptor

Meh.... couldnt care less about EV's, but I do find the hypocrisy of the once tesla loving liberals to be hillarious!

it's not hypocrisy to like EVs, but hate Nazis.

[simon varley]

Originally Posted by Interceptor

No different to the "renewable energy crowd" who are hell bent that solar panels & wind turbines are worth it regardless of the cost to the consumer & long term harm tot he environment

it's OT for this thread, but evidence for that statement please?

[Interceptor]

Originally Posted by simon varley

it's not hypocrisy to like EVs, but hate Nazis.

You consider Elon to be a nazi? why?

Originally Posted by simon varley

it's OT for this thread, but evidence for that statement please?

Which part?

Cost to the consumer? Maybe you can explain why my power bills are going up faster than my income is?

Environmental harm? How do you responsibly & cost effectively dispose of solar panels & wind turbine components that have a limited lifespan?

Pretty sure the current method is burying them.....

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Interceptor

You consider Elon to be a nazi? why?

He's literally funding right wing parties the Germany and Europe with nazi ethea. Literally why the French and German people are revolting against Tesla.

Which part?



Cost to the consumer? Maybe you can explain why my power bills are going up faster than my income is?



Environmental harm? How do you responsibly & cost effectively dispose of solar panels & wind turbine components that have a limited lifespan?



Pretty sure the current method is burying them.....

Actually they can now be recycled. Yes, they were buried but that has changed and now we have legislation around that. Wind and solar are still negative emissions across their life.

It's funny those that critise solar panels and wind blades never ask how we recycle coal or gas (or petrol).

Also, with respect to power bills, not sure if you shop around much. My bills are cheaper these days with energy companies giving away free power during the day due to too much renewables in the grid and heavily discounted power at night cause boilers can't be turn up and down easily.

So you have ZERO cents during the day and 8 cents at night. Cheaper than control load.

[Interceptor]

Originally Posted by kypez

He's literally funding right wing parties the Germany and Europe with nazi ethea. Literally why the French and German people are revolting against Tesla.

Its probably not such a bad thing given the problems occuring in Europe atm, but thats a topic thats already gotten a post deleted in this thread

Originally Posted by kypez

Actually they can now be recycled. Yes, they were buried but that has changed and now we have legislation around that. Wind and solar are still negative emissions across their life.

Recyclable..... at what financial cost?

Originally Posted by kypez

It's funny those that critise solar panels and wind blades never ask how we recycle coal or gas (or petrol).

How do you expect to be able to recycle the emissions from any fuel sourced power?

And if you're going to bring petrol into this....are we to take that you're offloading your environmentally unfriendly V8's in favour of EV's shortly?

Originally Posted by kypez

Also, with respect to power bills, not sure if you shop around much.

Not so easy for me.... Guessing you live in suburbia?

Originally Posted by kypez

My bills are cheaper these days with energy companies giving away free power during the day due to too much renewables in the grid and heavily discounted power at night cause boilers can't be turn up and down easily.

Just paid my power bill for the quarter, $1074, just shy of 900 this time last year, and a touch over 800 the year before that, not in suburbia, and only 1 electricity provider here

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Interceptor

Its probably not such a bad thing given the problems occuring in Europe atm, but thats a topic thats already gotten a post deleted in this thread

Not here to debate if it's good or bad. Just explaining why people don't like him in Europe.

Recyclable..... at what financial cost?

Irrelevant again. Still cheaper than digging and burning

How do you expect to be able to recycle the emissions from any fuel sourced power?

I don't. That's my point.

And if you're going to bring petrol into this....are we to take that you're offloading your environmentally unfriendly V8's in favour of EV's shortly?

No, appreciating renewables doesn't mean I want to sell my V8's. As I've said over and over, it's not one or the other, us vs them. I enjoy both worlds.

Not so easy for me.... Guessing you live in suburbia?



Just paid my power bill for the quarter, $1074, just shy of 900 this time last year, and a touch over 800 the year before that, not in suburbia, and only 1 electricity provider here

I got solar a few years ago and my bills went from $1800 a quarter to $50 in summer (this year was negative $35 over December and January) and $200 a quarter in winter. Payback time for the solar is a few years. Totally understand that not everyone can afford the outlay. Panels last 25 years.

The free energy plans are sold to rural customers too but again accept that your area might not qualify. Still worth checking out. Check out Ovo Energy if you're in their supply area.

[Syndrome]

In before the lock.

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by smoo

Does that also apply to all the other ventures he’s involved in, Twitter etc.

The only reason this is an issue is because he’s on the wrong side of the political spectrum.
If he cucked himself for the dems like he did last decade all the identical MSM talking points would be trying to convince us he is the second incarnation.
Because that isn’t happening those full of joy and kind ness are vandalising private property, intimidating and attacking individuals who have nothing to do with it.

I make no differentiation between company same requirement of a director and to me politics is irrelevant.

[Travesty]

Originally Posted by kypez

I got solar a few years ago and my bills went from $1800 a quarter to $50 in summer (this year was negative $35 over December and January) and $200 a quarter in winter. Payback time for the solar is a few years. Totally understand that not everyone can afford the outlay. Panels last 25 years.The free energy plans are sold to rural customers too but again accept that your area might not qualify. Still worth checking out. Check out Ovo Energy if you're in their supply area.

$1800 a quarter??? Were you running a server farm in your garage?

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Travesty

$1800 a quarter??? Were you running a server farm in your garage?

Pool pumps, central heating, poorly wired hot water systems that the previous owner had wired to peak. Moving to solar offset all those power hungry devices. But this is OT.

[Travesty]

Fair call.

In a nutshell, vested interests politised something that was apolitical.

[T3rminator]

Ask Grok...

And for an extra bit of fun, ask GROK who the biggest spreader of disinformation is on X ...

(For those not aware, GROK is Musk's own AI engine on X)

[kypez]

Originally Posted by smoo

The only reason this is an issue is because he’s on the wrong side of the political spectrum.

If he cucked himself for the dems like he did last decade all the identical MSM talking points would be trying to convince us he is the second incarnation.

Because that isn’t happening those full of joy and kind ness are vandalising private property, intimidating and attacking individuals who have nothing to do with it.

not necessarily smoo. There was a lot of anti EV sentiment when he was aligned with the Dems. Both sides virtue signal in their respective ways.

Elon and Tesla have been the only consistent punching bag for both sides.

Difference is the diaspora bought the product in larger numbers vs the ones now that won't.

Elon aligned himself with Trump to squash the competition especially from China. Only 1 profitable EV company exists in the USA without handouts that the Biden administration were giving. I don't think even he calculated the fallout would've been as bad as it has been. The market read this and it was why the price jumped when Trump got in. No one saw this fallout.

[Interceptor]

Originally Posted by kypez

Irrelevant again. Still cheaper than digging and burning

Hardly irrelevant, its still a cost that gets passed onto the consumer, and consider the scarcity of facilities to recycle the materials. My nearest solar panel recycling depot is ~300km away, and I know my local council doesnt send the panels they recieve there.

Originally Posted by kypez

Payback time for the solar is a few years. Totally understand that not everyone can afford the outlay. Panels last 25 years.

The solar installation at my house lasted 8 years before the inverter died, no solar installer I've spoken with will replace *just* the inverter, they all want to replace the panels too.

Originally Posted by kypez

The free energy plans are sold to rural customers too but again accept that your area might not qualify. Still worth checking out. Check out Ovo Energy if you're in their supply area.

As I said, only 1 electricity provider in the area.