October 2010 vehicle sales results

[vztrt]

The picture is tiny. The Taurus I saw is from the pictures that have been bandied about on here. I was there 2 weeks ago.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by vztrt

The picture is tiny. The Taurus I saw is from the pictures that have been bandied about on here. I was there 2 weeks ago.

Wow that makes you the expert then on buyer preferences....

Here am I a person that has actually been in it and done miles....

[sxckevo]

Originally Posted by flappist

The problem is not simple.

There is the GFC still at the moment so many are a bit wary spending and Falcons live in the $40-80k range as well as cost more for rego etc than many other models.

To the average person an upspeced Camry, Mazda, Hyundai or whatever costs the same as a povvo Falcon, has a better warranty, cost less for rego and holds better resale. This makes it all the harder.

Not everyone cares about RWD or any performance issue other than being able to overtake a truck occasionally.

sorry but obviously people still care about power, RWD, povo packs, and low resales because commodores still seem to be flying out the door!


FFOracing what are you talking about, the falcon looks 10x different than the BA/BF in every aspect,

also quality wise i say its right up there, was looking 'closely' today at my dads FG xr8 and the area around the doors, gaps between the body and body kits, INTERIOR, everything! looks defiantly as good as my good friend's 08 mazda 6

my brain becomes a mess when i try to think of why its not selling, the product is defiantly there. the only thing i can think of is that our 'bogan' stockies on the back, mad doughies, sick excessively loud exhaust clans are growing. all i remember from school is i use to think that i looked like a loser when i turned up in my dads FORD XT GT because i was led to believe that holdens where the only cool brand out there. how i regret following the crowd now :(

[dannyhilton]

Originally Posted by sxckevo

sorry but obviously people still care about power, RWD, povo packs, and low resales because commodores still seem to be flying out the door!

Ten years ago they were flying out the door when Holden were selling 10,000 plus cars a month. In a car market that's grown, Commodore sales are floating around 4500 a month, so about half. Add to that both the Commodore and Falcon sell large volumes to fleet, and I think flappist is absolutely spot on.

There's a market for these cars yes, but it's getting smaller. Most people think their Camry is all the car they need, especially as it's cheaper. Doesn't mean it's a better car though.

[sxckevo]

but im talking in relation to falcon vs commodore, the commodore is regularly the number 1 sold, so realistically its not selling no where near as much but its still selling a ton more than ford (sadly)

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by sxckevo

but im talking in relation to falcon vs commodore, the commodore is regularly the number 1 sold, so realistically its not selling no where near as much but its still selling a ton more than ford (sadly)

They also have an extra body type in the mix which Ford does not (Sportwagon) and use some pretty heavy incentives to move stock at times, something which Ford is not prepared to do at the moment.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

They also have an extra body type in the mix which Ford does not (Sportwagon) and use some pretty heavy incentives to move stock at times, something which Ford is not prepared to do at the moment.

Both Ford and Holden have been offering deals.

$36,990 for XR and G Series 50th Anniversary
$34,990 for XT

Yes, Holden sells a lot of Omega fleet cars but also heaps of V8 models too,
so they effectively sell to a much broader audience than Ford.....
Something the Ecoboost I-4 and LILPG Falcons will hopefully address,
not sure what Ford will do on the XR8 Front, we can only hope maybe G8E too?

[Road_Warrior]

Well, if they're going down the n/a route for the XR8, they'd be stupid not to do a G8E or equivalent. But here's hoping the EcoBoost will be the saviour.

[GTENVY]

I dont think the new V8 will make any real impact on Falcon sales, the performance models are but a small amount of total vehicle sales.

I still believe Ford have an image problem. People believe that they are unreliable, bad resale, poor service availability, this list goes on.

People are buying toyota's in droves because they are 'percieved' as more reliable, have better resale and better service.

Holden sales - well cant explain that one.

Just my 2c

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by GTENVY

I dont think the new V8 will make any real impact on Falcon sales, the performance models are but a small amount of total vehicle sales.

I still believe Ford have an image problem. People believe that they are unreliable, bad resale, poor service availability, this list goes on.

People are buying toyota's in droves because they are 'percieved' as more reliable, have better resale and better service.

Holden sales - well cant explain that one.

Just my 2c

Holden have a huge support base and people just go buy a Holden regardless of other makes.
Ford not so much, it seems like the Falcon has to work harder to get sales, and here's why...

1) Holden Utes are mostly V8 SS models commanding a much higher profit margins.
Falcon Ute is aimed as a "tool of trade", meaning the majority of sales are I-6 base models

2) Holden SportWagon has a healthy sales mix of high series and V8 versions.
Ford axed their Station wagon and now rely on Mondeo S/W in Unobtanium
trim level. Ford do not see a Sportwagon as product adding for money spent.


3) Holden Sedan, Omega 3.0 with low CO2 number slips into government
sales, SS and SS-V, Calais and Calais V V8 cars are rather popular
Falcon sedan, XT is non existant in fleet sales arena, XR6T and G6ET as
V8 replacements but sales are low compared to Holden V8 competitors

4) Holden Captiva, Holden uses import mid sized SUV with diesel to capture
easy sales, they plug into huge cost savings via GMNA Chevrolet Equinox.
Ford Territory, Ford has literally run the Territory into the ground, while the
AWDs got the ZF 6-speed upgrade but volume selling RWD soldiers on with
ancient 4-speed auto box.

I don't have the answers but it appears that Holden have far more buyers
than Ford, they cast a wider net reaping greater rewards which then seems
to be all undone by the vanity of striving for unsustainable exports...

[bobthebilda]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

hehehe.. That is funny, that bob guy has come on here a few times, quoting per day line plans & how Ford have been behind, yet ever year he picked Ford killed them in profit.. His really starting to make himself look silly...

Thanks Joe, not quite sure what your point was, but at least you got a laugh. The thread was about sales (and most times sales = production), it wasnt anything to do with profit. My reply was also just to highlight the drop in numbers coming out of the manufacturers, from 2005 (Holdens highest point) to now, and as I didnt know the exact numbers from ford, i didnt put it down. And as Holden local production has dropped 66% percent from 2005, I dont know how that could be conceived as an attack on Ford. I know they have dropped since 2005, but I wouldnt have thought it was more than 66%.

As for Profits, well it ha nothing to do with my comment or the thread, but until someone can give a definitive answer on what makes up one of the local manufacturers profit, then I'll treat the released numbers as a joke anyhow. A manufactuing arm can make a $200 million loss, and the imports make a $210 profit, and all that will get reported is a $10 million profit.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

As for Profits, well it ha nothing to do with my comment or the thread, but until someone can give a definitive answer on what makes up one of the local manufacturers profit, then I'll treat the released numbers as a joke anyhow. A manufactuing arm can make a $200 million loss, and the imports make a $210 profit, and all that will get reported is a $10 million profit.

I suspect that accountancy only works that way in the GM world,
the rest of us have audits and standards to adhere to.

Sales do not necessarily equal profits and chasing sales is what sent GM bankrupt in the USA.
Profit on every sale is far more important and what ultimately cost Holden dearly in 2009
with the cancellation of the Pontiac G8.

[mik]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Both Ford and Holden have been offering deals.

$36,990 for XR and G Series 50th Anniversary
$34,990 for XT

Yes, Holden sells a lot of Omega fleet cars but also heaps of V8 models too,
so they effectively sell to a much broader audience than Ford.....
Something the Ecoboost I-4 and LILPG Falcons will hopefully address,
not sure what Ford will do on the XR8 Front, we can only hope maybe G8E too?

i think holden is pushing pretty hard with the deals, about a week ago (possibly two), something that caught my eye was a holden dealer offering warranty for the life of the car,
it was for a limited period only , but still that would be hard to go past, you`d have to read the fine print though .

[jpd80]

Can anyone conform that that this Friday to Tuesday are down days at Broadmeadows?
And also up to another 8 down days could be done by the end of the year?

If so, this sounds like Ford have fallen into a huge ditch.....

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Can anyone conform that that this Friday to Tuesday are down days at Broadmeadows?
And also up to another 8 down days could be done by the end of the year?

If so, this sounds like Ford have fallen into a huge ditch.....

You got to figure there coming... They are tracking in sales numbers a little hebind last year in total Aust built cars & there was quite a few down days at the start of last year.. But 10 or so seems alot?

[Road_Warrior]

When I was at the assembly plant last month, I did notice quite a large number of cars parked up in the storage car park waiting for homes. Given the poor showing in the sales charts in October there could be an issue with too much dealer inventory.

[naddis01]

Originally Posted by naddis01

I thought we were meant to see sedan sales increase by the same amount as the wagon was selling when it was dropped as it was going to free up the line to do so.

My post was a sarcastic view of the opinions expressed by some members with certain views made in the months leading up to the demise of the Falcon Wagon.

FYI I have bought a wagon from a different brand.

[sxckevo]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Holden have a huge support base and people just go buy a Holden regardless of other makes.
Ford not so much, it seems like the Falcon has to work harder to get sales, and here's why...

1) Holden Utes are mostly V8 SS models commanding a much higher profit margins.
Falcon Ute is aimed as a "tool of trade", meaning the majority of sales are I-6 base models

2) Holden SportWagon has a healthy sales mix of high series and V8 versions.
Ford axed their Station wagon and now rely on Mondeo S/W in Unobtanium
trim level. Ford do not see a Sportwagon as product adding for money spent.


3) Holden Sedan, Omega 3.0 with low CO2 number slips into government
sales, SS and SS-V, Calais and Calais V V8 cars are rather popular
Falcon sedan, XT is non existant in fleet sales arena, XR6T and G6ET as
V8 replacements but sales are low compared to Holden V8 competitors

4) Holden Captiva, Holden uses import mid sized SUV with diesel to capture
easy sales, they plug into huge cost savings via GMNA Chevrolet Equinox.
Ford Territory, Ford has literally run the Territory into the ground, while the
AWDs got the ZF 6-speed upgrade but volume selling RWD soldiers on with
ancient 4-speed auto box.

I don't have the answers but it appears that Holden have far more buyers
than Ford, they cast a wider net reaping greater rewards which then seems
to be all undone by the vanity of striving for unsustainable exports...

On this note should ford try to start flogging the XR6T ute as the 'pretty boy' ute by maybe adding free hardtop, leather etc anything else that would make it more appealing to non tools of the trade buyers and try to steal some of the SS sales directly??
just a thought

[FalconXV]

Your right, the Falcon Ute is in an uncomfortable position.
Not as cheap as Hilux etc
Not as off-roady as 76-series
Not as attractive as VE ute ( except Maloo) with massive gap
No dual cab, space cab variants
No 4wd variant despite availability of Territory running gear.
If anything is screaming out for Territory's new diesel , I would say it's Ute.
I know mining companies use Landcruisers to go underground because nothing else can handle the pressure/ heat. Also RailCorp loved the RTV, considering FoA invented the coupe-utility, the latest iteration should be at the top of it's game.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by sxckevo

On this note should ford try to start flogging the XR6T ute as the 'pretty boy' ute by maybe adding free hardtop, leather etc anything else that would make it more appealing to non tools of the trade buyers and try to steal some of the SS sales directly??
just a thought

Originally Posted by FalconXV

Your right, the Falcon Ute is in an uncomfortable position.
Not as cheap as Hilux etc
Not as off-roady as 76-series
Not as attractive as VE ute ( except Maloo) with massive gap
No dual cab, space cab variants
No 4wd variant despite availability of Territory running gear.
If anything is screaming out for Territory's new diesel , I would say it's Ute.
I know mining companies use Landcruisers to go underground because nothing else can handle the pressure/ heat. Also RailCorp loved the RTV, considering FoA invented the coupe-utility, the latest iteration should be at the top of it's game.

I fear that Ford is using the same flawed logic that eventually killed the station wagon.
The Ute to many Holden fans is a quasi two door sports car with a large boot,
they sell heaps of V8s in them and do the same with the Sportwagon.
Whoever is making product decisions at Ford needs to be taken out back and shot,
they're letting model after model die through misdirection and by failing to compete
with Holden, they're handing the market over.

Holden may goof up with exports but they understand the local market much better than Ford...

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by naddis01

My post was a sarcastic view of the opinions expressed by some members with certain views made in the months leading up to the demise of the Falcon Wagon.

FYI I have bought a wagon from a different brand.

And I think you miss understood why they were saying that!!! At the time they could not build enough sedans to meet market demand... So, by not building the Wagon, they could build more sedans (to people who already wanted a sedan) & would not see a drop... It had nothing to do with Wagon people buying Sedans... But things have changed & now they have too much of everything


And regarding utes.. Arn't Ford & Holden pretty much line ball with sales this year & Ford beat them last year? So am not sure why everyone thinks Holden has this so right & Ford has gotten it so wrong??

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

At the time they could not build enough sedans to meet market demand

Hmm. I'm starting to see a common theme amongst these sorts of things that Ford have been saying over the past 12-18 months.

[naddis01]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

And I think you miss understood why they were saying that!!! At the time they could not build enough sedans to meet market demand... So, by not building the Wagon, they could build more sedans (to people who already wanted a sedan) & would not see a drop... It had nothing to do with Wagon people buying Sedans... But things have changed & now they have too much of everything

I know why they were saying it. We were told they could not build enough sedans (at that line rate) and the theory was, as you say, by dropping the wagon it would free up 'space' on the line. Well it has really paid off for them hasn't it?. As Jpd80 has suggested Ford seem to be terrible at predicting the local market. I am not saying that I could do any better but we seem to be constantly hearing the same excuses every month and continue to see the gradual decline in Ford sales. Cue the 'yes but Ford are making a profit on their sales so all is good' line. You still need to be making a return on your investment.

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by naddis01

Cue the 'yes but Ford are making a profit on their sales so all is good' line. You still need to be making a return on your investment.

Isn't a profit a return on investment?????? Think long & hard before you reply, because there is only one right answer!

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

Isn't a profit a return on investment?????? Think long & hard before you reply, because there is only one right answer!

If you make 2% profit on a billion dollar investment, but your required rate of return is 12% then you havn't met your required return on investment.

I can put that same billion into a bank account or treasury bills and earn 6% risk free without the hassle of having to make cars.

[bobthebilda]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

Isn't a profit a return on investment?????? Think long & hard before you reply, because there is only one right answer!

Ah Joe, the economic expert. Please do tell me where you have heard or read any release from Ford Australia that they have made a profit on their investments in australian manufacturing. Now, just dont think long and hard about it before you reply, it would be a bonus for all on this forum if you just "thought" about it before replying.

Now i need the specific comment where someone has said, our 4000 imports each month didnt make any money, but our local manufacturing arm did (or anything closely related to it).

[naddis01]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

Isn't a profit a return on investment?????? Think long & hard before you reply, because there is only one right answer!

Yes it is however I don't need to think long and hard about it. Read Brazen's post. What was Ford's return on investment as a percentage? 1%? 2%? 5%? I wouldn't know but I bet it isn't great.

[Joe5619]

Did I log onto Ford forums or not?? You people that want to continue to put the boot into Ford really need to go to a different website!!

A) A profit of only 2% in a year that was the GFC is pretty good. Especially when so many made losses & some even went broke!!
B) Lets wait & see what the profit is this year and what rate it is.
C) I don’t have figures that show import vs. local profit wise.. No-one outside of Ford does.. But how do you know it is not the local stuff making the profit with imports running at a loss?????????
D) Ford US must know more than we do, because they just invested 230 Million!! This is not play money.. That level of investment alone speaks volumes!!
E) Holden has not made one cent in profit for 5 years straight, yet no-one seems to worry about them...

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by naddis01

Yes it is however I don't need to think long and hard about it. Read Brazen's post. What was Ford's return on investment as a percentage? 1%? 2%? 5%? I wouldn't know but I bet it isn't great.

What about FoA's other income:
1) $700 million for design of the T6 Ranger
2) now working on the Everest SUv worth another $200 million
3) plus designing Figo for India
4) plus working on a small car for Chinese market..

These are only the projects we know about...

Oh, Casting plant's major brake parts contract, wasn't that worth around $1 billion?

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by Brazen

If you make 2% profit on a billion dollar investment, but your required rate of return is 12% then you havn't met your required return on investment.

I can put that same billion into a bank account or treasury bills and earn 6% risk free without the hassle of having to make cars.

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...25779000148834

Not even Mazda (private kings) has made a profit % greater than 5% in the past 10 years, but you except Ford to make 12%??

Our 2 leading import only companies are not making big bucks!! And the dont souce from expensive Europe like Ford currently does!!