QLD - changes to special interest rego

[sudszy]

Originally Posted by svo supporter

SUDZY.
Why is it unreasonable.

I stated above why I thought it unreasonable

Given that you have just played the abuse card, Id say I probably have a good point that you can't really offer any logic to counter.

[gtxb67]

Originally Posted by sudszy

Seems unreasonable to me. $180 rego for 30+ year old cars, Id still be using mine as a daily if that was the case, effectively being subsidised by those that are paying full rego, why should I deserve a discount?.

I agree. I use the club permit - if I want a monetary benefit, then I must be prepared to offer something back. in my case limited use is the only criteria. hardly anything to complain about

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by gtxb67

I agree. I use the club permit - if I want a monetary benefit, then I must be prepared to offer something back. in my case limited use is the only criteria. hardly anything to complain about

Only one person complaining that I can see ....... Its a trade off. Lower rego costs, limited use, belong to a registered club ...... nothing to sook about really and cannot see why there would be anyone who would want to argue against it. Especially on a car forum.

[Pedro]

Originally Posted by M-Dog

Hey Boys,
Is any-one a member of a club that actually responded to this opinion poll/communication on Club Rego?
I would like to hear about what was said and where it might be going or is it just something else for the gov' to tease us with? Would like to follow this one if any-one has some news on it.
Thanks,
M.

Here is a copy of the questionaire and my replies printed in bold...

QUEENSLAND HISTORIC MOTORING COUNCIL (Inc)
(affiliated with Australian Historic Motoring Federation)

QHMC BULLETIN 1 of 2011

To: QHMC Club Delegates and Affiliated Club Committees
Subject: SIV Concessional Registration
SIV Concessional Registration – have your say

(1) Is QHMC advocacy required for a full logbook system with its associated management obligations? No.

(2) Is a partial amendment desirable to the Qld SIV system to allow restricted, monitored, recreational use? Yes
If yes, detail what benefits/costs would be involved for DTMR, what aspect would you like to see changed, what if any additional management will be required at club level and how your club will assist the QHMC management with any additional management issues your proposal may require.
No Club management required.

(3) Is there some other system you would like to see adopted? Yes
If yes, what is it and how will it work?

A yearly mileage that is acceptable to the registration authority is determined.
At commencement of SIV registration, submit vehicle to motor registry for confirmation of odometer reading. This reading to be entered onto the vehicle’s registration file. At the end of the registration period (usually 12 months) a new mileage figure is entered, and so on each year.
When the vehicle is sold or randomly checked, the odometer reading must comply within reason.


(4) Is no action required at all? No

Are your members happy with the existing scheme? No.

Your club’s comments are essential by 24th May 2011 so the matter can be considered at the next QHMC Club Delegates General Meeting. This will allow QHMC to distribute information to all clubs with a view to agreeing on any potential proposed action at the July General Meeting.

David James
President QHMC
8th April 2011
Email: president@qhmc.org.au
QHMC website: www.qhmc.org.au

[svo supporter]

Originally Posted by sudszy

I stated above why I thought it unreasonable

Given that you have just played the abuse card, Id say I probably have a good point that you can't really offer any logic to counter.

Can't give a logical reason to a knuckle head like yourself, as you have no idea how the system operates and there is no way you could ever understand. Lord knows, I tried a few months ago, but you still couldn't get into your head how it works.

Oh and I pay plenty of money to my local transport authority. 4 cars on historic and 2 on full rego. No tax deduction either. So I'm all for enjoying discounting motoring where possible.

[caprispecial]

Thanks for posting that questionaire pedro.
My answers would have been somewhat different. Im actualy a fan of the victorian scheme and would be elated if it was adopted here in qld. There are no mileage restrictions in vic and I dont think the qt. will go for any scheme where they have to check miles and inspect the car each year its too messy, they will look to streamline as much as possible.
I currently have a capri v6 with full reg. and in the past year have only gone 1000k this year might be 2k so realy mileage isnt an issue given that the car is only used for recreation.
I eventualy want to have about three classics on the road so full reg. is not an option for me and am just signing up for club reg on the capri now.
Any scheme that will allow me to drive more than a 15k radius for recreational purposes at least once a month should be good.

[sudszy]

Originally Posted by svo supporter

Can't give a logical reason to a knuckle head like yourself, as you have no idea how the system operates and there is no way you could ever understand. Lord knows, I tried a few months ago, but you still couldn't get into your head how it works. .

Wow, no substance and more abuse.

[sanchoXB]

This has also been raised in NSW but at this stage it is only to get an idea of support for the scheme. Our club does not want the 90 day scheme, the main reason we do not want it is that the 90 day scheme will damage the social aspect of clubs, if you can use the car any time you like there is no reason to go to a club event.

In Vic under this scheme club membership has increased but the new memebers are only joining to benifit themselves and to use the cheap rego, previously these people were not interested in clubs and do not attend club events. In NSW club rego is only $50 per year and have no restrictions on number of days used or kms travelled as long as it is on club events - the answer here is simply add more events to the club calendar. Our club has at least 3-4 events per month so there are plenty of times to use your car.

Another point is who will police the log books, our club certainly doesnt want the responsibilty of checking every members book nor does the RTA.

From the individuals view it sounds like a great idea, but from the club perspective it could eventually mean the end of some clubs and if the club in your area falls apart its back to full price rego.

[gtxb67]

Originally Posted by sanchoXB

This has also been raised in NSW but at this stage it is only to get an idea of support for the scheme. Our club does not want the 90 day scheme, the main reason we do not want it is that the 90 day scheme will damage the social aspect of clubs, if you can use the car any time you like there is no reason to go to a club event.

In Vic under this scheme club membership has increased but the new memebers are only joining to benifit themselves and to use the cheap rego, previously these people were not interested in clubs and do not attend club events. In NSW club rego is only $50 per year and have no restrictions on number of days used or kms travelled as long as it is on club events - the answer here is simply add more events to the club calendar. Our club has at least 3-4 events per month so there are plenty of times to use your car.

Another point is who will police the log books, our club certainly doesnt want the responsibilty of checking every members book nor does the RTA.

From the individuals view it sounds like a great idea, but from the club perspective it could eventually mean the end of some clubs and if the club in your area falls apart its back to full price rego.

true, but the club can make it's own criteria for members and new members alike

I doubt many clubs would allow club permits to be so easy to obtain with the new rules


I don't think anyone checks the log book as such. if the police pick you up, and it is not filled out, then you are in trouble. the idea is that you will fill it in every time and not take the risk of driving an unregistered car

[Donny]

A lot of the GT clubs make you wait a full years membership to them before they let you go on the CRS scheme.

Also the above GT clubs have a rule that you must attend at least x amount of gazetted club runs per year to be a part of the CRS scheme.

I think if all clubs mandated that members wanting club rego MUST attend a fixed number of club events per year in order to remain on the club rego scheme, then the 90 day thing can still be very fair both ways.

I dont see an issue with the 90 day CRS running a log book setup. The cops will police it where if they pull you over and your books not marked for the trip your on, then your unregistered and fined accordingly.

The whole milage/speedo thing on the other hand isnt an idea I think will work, seenings a lot of people may disconnect their speedos or odo's or pull out the unit and give the reading a haircut.. Too easy to rort it that way.

[sudszy]

Originally Posted by Donny

A lot of the GT clubs make you wait a full years membership to them before they let you go on the CRS scheme.

Also the above GT clubs have a rule that you must attend at least x amount of gazetted club runs per year to be a part of the CRS scheme.

I think if all clubs mandated that members wanting club rego MUST attend a fixed number of club events per year in order to remain on the club rego scheme, .

What you have highlighted here is how these clubs seem to be a rule unto themselves.

I think the issues here are perhaps there should be restricted rego available to anyone who earns a 30+ year old vehicle regardless of whether they want to go on cruises with a car club.

Perhaps the rules are also from a different era; where back in the 70s a 30 year old car just wouldnt be viable as a daily driver or even be seen on the road in normal traffic, compared to today when there are still plenty of 30+ year old cars being used as daily drivers.

[Jim Goose]

Originally Posted by sudszy

What you have highlighted here is how these clubs seem to be a rule unto themselves.

I think the issues here are perhaps there should be restricted rego available to anyone who earns a 30+ year old vehicle regardless of whether they want to go on cruises with a car club.

Perhaps the rules are also from a different era; where back in the 70s a 30 year old car just wouldnt be viable as a daily driver or even be seen on the road in normal traffic, compared to today when there are still plenty of 30+ year old cars being used as daily drivers.

A rule unto themselves????
How so?

There isnt that many cars out there older then 30yrs of age driven on a daily basis. Those that are around do form two distinct groups, those driven on a daily basis as their daily driver and those driven once in a blue moon as people have either restored them or bought them as some form of investment. Thats the whole idea of being in a club... is being social and sharing something with people who have the same interests.

Old rules??? Club rego isnt something old.. it hasnt been around that long in QLD.

[nstg8a]

Originally Posted by sudszy

What you have highlighted here is how these clubs seem to be a rule unto themselves.

I think the issues here are perhaps there should be restricted rego available to anyone who earns a 30+ year old vehicle regardless of whether they want to go on cruises with a car club.

Perhaps the rules are also from a different era; where back in the 70s a 30 year old car just wouldnt be viable as a daily driver or even be seen on the road in normal traffic, compared to today when there are still plenty of 30+ year old cars being used as daily drivers.

i actually agree with this,

[svo supporter]

Originally Posted by gtxb67

I don't think anyone checks the log book as such. if the police pick you up, and it is not filled out, then you are in trouble. the idea is that you will fill it in every time and not take the risk of driving an unregistered car

Exactly right with the S.A system, which VIC has modelled their system on.

Mr SUDZSY. The club rego system is in place for motoring enthusiests, who wish to restore their pride and joy and drive it on weekends, rather than run the gauntlet of day to day comuting and have a higher risk of having the car written off. Why they have used a 30 year minimum age is beyond me, however older cars, especially round this age and older are getting harder and harder to find, therefore by using them as a daily commuter, makes them motre susceptible to being damaged as a result of an accident.

This is also reflected in the Dept of transport recognising this, therefore offering a discounted rego cost. And yes I already know, you're going to whinge and whine that you want the same deal.

The clubs are generally make specific. (Not everyone, but a general rule of thumb). This enables like minded people to get together, exchange ideas, find elusive parts, cruise together etc etc, very much like make specific forums like this one.

[sudszy]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

A rule unto themselves????
How so?

There isnt that many cars out there older then 30yrs of age driven on a daily basis. Those that are around do form two distinct groups, those driven on a daily basis as their daily driver and those driven once in a blue moon as people have either restored them or bought them as some form of investment. Thats the whole idea of being in a club... is being social and sharing something with people who have the same interests.

Old rules??? Club rego isnt something old.. it hasnt been around that long in QLD.

It would pay to do some research :
http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/~/media/c3...heme_guide.pdf
A registration concession has been provided to veteran and vintage vehicle owners since the fifties. The concession was extended in the late seventies to also accommodate "classic historic" vehicles, that is, those built at least 30 years ago.

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

There isnt that many cars out there older then 30yrs of age driven on a daily basis. .

A considerable lot more than when the schemes were implemented in the 70s. When I got my licence in the 70s I dont remember seeing any vehicles from the 40s driving around!
While Im stating the obvious, 30 years ago was 1981, just have a look next time you're out there, they really arent that difficult to keep roadworthy or are unsuitable for daily driving.

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

A rule unto themselves????
How so?

As was quoted:

Originally Posted by Donny

A lot of the GT clubs make you wait a full years membership to them before they let you go on the CRS scheme.

Also the above GT clubs have a rule that you must attend at least x amount of gazetted club runs per year to be a part of the CRS scheme.

These are rules not specified by any of the governments supporting that allow such schemes, where would it stop, they insist you perform car loving rituals rubbing yourself down in your car's engine oil and sniffing leaded petrol to prove your allegiance?

One example:http://www.fordforums.com.au/showpos...5&postcount=62. According to svo supporter his club wouldnt allow halogen insert headlights, yet the rules allow exceptions for safety modifications. One the same level/logic, one could also see them getting picky with tyres, what options are out there to fit 4.5 inch rims? or that the tyres you have fitted are much higher performance than those available at the time, you cant buy tyres today that are as bad as anything made in the 60s!

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

Thats the whole idea of being in a club... is being social and sharing something with people who have the same interests.

Nothing stopping people from joining clubs, but no its not the reason why governments allow the reduced rego for belonging to a club, here's the only govco site that actually justifies why it is there:

http://www.nt.gov.au/transport/mvr/r...tins/ibr02.pdf

The Club Registration Scheme is designed to provide for concessional registration of eligible enthusiast vehicles. The scheme is intended to support, and encourage, Northern Territory motor vehicle enthusiasts to maintain the operational status of historic and individually constructed vehicles.

Looking through the different state regs several have different plates and/or different colour rego stickers etc That indeed would make the system harder to rort, though really think visually different plates should be mandatory.

[fmc351]

Originally Posted by sudszy

These are rules not specified by any of the governments supporting that allow such schemes, where would it stop, they insist you perform car loving rituals rubbing yourself down in your car's engine oil and sniffing leaded petrol to prove your allegiance?

Its a club, join, dont join. All clubs have rules of some kind or another, for whatever reason. That doesnt make them a rule unto themselves. If they narrowly define their rules too far then they wont be a club for long.

[sudszy]

Originally Posted by fmc351

Its a club, join, dont join. All clubs have rules of some kind or another, for whatever reason. That doesnt make them a rule unto themselves. If they narrowly define their rules too far then they wont be a club for long.

Govcos implemented the club rego as a mechanism to maintain the operational status of historic vehicles.
When these clubs then dictate what hoops you have to jump through(delayed privileges when govco doesnt require any of that bs and the rest) to get them to sign the piece of paper Im afraid it does make them a rule unto themselves.
For many there aren't many options on what club they can join(make of car and location), so "free market" forces dont apply here.

[fmc351]

Originally Posted by sudszy

Govcos implemented the club rego as a mechanism to maintain the operational status of historic vehicles.
When these clubs then dictate what hoops you have to jump through(delayed privileges when govco doesnt require any of that bs and the rest) to get them to sign the piece of paper Im afraid it does make them a rule unto themselves.
For many there aren't many options on what club they can join(make of car and location), so "free market" forces dont apply here.

So for example a GT Owners club should have to allow a mock up car as part of a cruise, or maybe even a Monaro? How about a bicycle or horse with appropriate stripes? If they want to define rules to the point that every detail must be faithful to factory spec, then they should be able to dictate that rule. Thats the club.

Find another one if you dont want to adhere to it. Just because a government sets rules for a type of rego that doesnt mean a club must make it possible for everyone who wants to use it, to use it via their club.

[Jim Goose]

It would pay to do some research :
http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/~/media/c3...heme_guide.pdf
A registration concession has been provided to veteran and vintage vehicle owners since the fifties. The concession was extended in the late seventies to also accommodate "classic historic" vehicles, that is, those built at least 30 years ago.

The veteran, vintage, classic and historic concession was reviewed in 1998 and has since been referred to as the Special Interest Vehicle (Registration Concession) Scheme.

I am referring to the present scheme.... thank you for leaving that last bit out.

A considerable lot more than when the schemes were implemented in the 70s. When I got my licence in the 70s I dont remember seeing any vehicles from the 40s driving around!
While Im stating the obvious, 30 years ago was 1981, just have a look next time you're out there, they really arent that difficult to keep roadworthy or are unsuitable for daily driving.

And ill say it again, there is barely a car on the road out there older then 30yrs of age... driven on a regular basis.
Not that difficult to keep roadworthy??? really...?
Rust repairs must be cheap where you live and engine rebuilds too im guessing? Parts easy to come by?

Nothing stopping people from joining clubs, but no its not the reason why governments allow the reduced rego for belonging to a club, here's the only govco site that actually justifies why it is there:

So its not the reason governments allow for cheap rego? Well why do they then?

According to svo supporter his club wouldnt allow halogen insert headlights, yet the rules allow exceptions for safety modifications. One the same level/logic, one could also see them getting picky with tyres, what options are out there to fit 4.5 inch rims? or that the tyres you have fitted are much higher performance than those available at the time, you cant buy tyres today that are as bad as anything made in the 60s!

If the clubs is that **** retentive then two things should happen, the person needs to leave the club (as he shouldve been aware of the rules prior to joining) and the club will eventually fail as it wont be able to attract new people and will be just full of people who will argue and bicker.
Its a free country and people can form their own clubs if they so desire...

[sudszy]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

I am referring to the present scheme.... thank you for leaving that last bit out.
..

left what out? present system....... you claimed that club rego in QLD didnt have the origins I suggested, well according to the govt website you are wrong.....

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

So its not the reason governments allow for cheap rego? Well why do they then?...

I did include this in my last post:

Originally Posted by sudszy

http://www.nt.gov.au/transport/mvr/r...tins/ibr02.pdf

The Club Registration Scheme is designed to provide for concessional registration of eligible enthusiast vehicles. The scheme is intended to support, and encourage, Northern Territory motor vehicle enthusiasts to maintain the operational status of historic and individually constructed vehicles.

contrary to your ideas, club rego isnt put there for the benefit of bringing people together to socialise etc , anymore than getting discounted rego for joining your local bowls or tiddlywinks club.

[OLDFORDNUT]

Finally a scheme that sounds great and the CLUBS have to try and confuse it for their benefit,good on you,
Remember you are dealing with QLD Transport and if you put too many new ideas in on top of VIC system your clubs input might just give the penpushers too many ways to stuff it up if and when they implement the new rules,
K.I.S.S keep it simple stupid or suffer the QLD TRansport interpretion of your clubs input

[russellw]

One warning only.

By all means debate the question but refrain from making personal aspersions or I will be handing out extended holidays.

Russ

[M-Dog]

[quote=Pedro]Here is a copy of the questionaire and my replies printed in bold...

Well Thank You Pedro,

After reading all the idle chit chat it is great to see that ONE person out there responded to my question.

Obviously not too many clubs are interested in any changes, I REALLY don't understand that at all!

If you have a voice, USE IT!

The way I see it, Clubs increasing their runs still don't give you the fredom that a 90 day or 120 day log would give you.
Whatever it may go to (if it changes at all) it has got to be better than 15klms, I still can't believe that restriction!

Thank you Pedro.

M.

[Donny]

I personally dont really see any drama in clubs setting out some rules/guidelines 'within reason' as to the use and sometimes misuse of the CRS.

I think its more than reasonable to expect a club rego member to at least show up to say a minimum of 3 club events a year for the privelage of having the conscessional reg. Thats hardly being a law unto themselves.. A club dosent automatically get access to the CRS system, and the system does require a club registrar who looks after it all. It dosent do it all itself..

The GT clubs that do implement these rules do so to weed out the users and hangers ons who only join up to take advantage of the CRS and give nothing back in return. I dont see any issue with that.
Considering the cost diffrence here in QLD for my GT on full reg is just under $1100 a year, consessional reg gets it down to $200-300 a year all up. I think the new system could be very fair and well worth it.

[lilmattie]

In my opinion:

1. 90 days is fair and more than adequate, and it's not a hard thing to keep a log book. A line in a book each time you use your vehicle. Big deal. At most - you'd write 90 lines of date and OD readings.

2. I don't have a problem becoming a member of a club, if thats what is needed, however I don't think you should have to be a member of a club to get concessional registration for a classic vehicle.

3. Club runs are good. But dont allow enough freedom.. say you want to run your car up to the Sunshine Coast on a whim... you'd have to make that an official event for it to be legal. Sometimes I just like to get my cars out on a Saturday or Sunday morning and drive and not have to organise anything at all.

3. Agreed. The potential is there for Clubs to possibly lose a few of their membership because there would be less need for the individual to be a member. However, if the individual is only there for the concessional registration anyway, then it's no great loss to the Club. The Club would still retain it's original 'like minded and similarly interested' members because they would be there for the social side of it.

Just my 2c. My main purpose of this thread was to confirm what I had heard. So - it seems there is 'some' truth to the rumours. Regardless of what some peoples opinions are, in my corner - this would be a well received and welcome change; and it would save me a packet each year.

All I would like to see - is the benefit of full registration, taking into account the amount that the vehicle is actually used and having a concession made for it.

[svo supporter]

I could argue, with my club, about particular rules governing what safety upgrades I wish to make to my car/s, but it'd be pointless. The same applies with modifications to your daily. If you modify it and don't have it approved by the powers to be, your car is deemed unroadworthy and you msut repair it before driving it again.


Tyres. You can upgrade them, as it's in the constitution. The constitution dicates the rules you must abide by to enjoy the benefits of the scheme. If you don't want to abide by the rules, don't be part of the scheme. That simple. It's exactly the same as a daily. Change something and it's not on the list of approved things to do with the powers to be, you're stuffed.

So Sudzsy, do some research before commenting, as you clearly have no idea how the schemes work, which is then adding to the confusion of those that wish to be part of theis scheme

[sudszy]

Originally Posted by svo supporter

Tyres. You can upgrade them, as it's in the constitution. The constitution dicates the rules you must abide by to enjoy the benefits of the scheme. If you don't want to abide by the rules, don't be part of the scheme. That simple. It's exactly the same as a daily. Change something and it's not on the list of approved things to do with the powers to be, you're stuffed.

Constitution? please enlighten us all to where we can find access to this, or are you talking about the whims of the club you are in?, or are there actually conditions that the respective state governments sets for cars to be eligible for club rego other than the broad requirement that cars must be in "original" spec and condition? Ive looked closely at all the govco sites and have found nothing that spells out any detail.

Hopefully you can provide some insight other than just your abuse.

[Jim Goose]

He is referring to a club constitution... I thought it was obvious enough

[Auslandau]

SUDZY ........... What is there to argue about or are you just, once again, arguing for the sake of it? CLUB Constitutions have nothing to do with the rules of registration. All the gov is doing is allowing those who have a 30 year old plus car that is linked to a club and is in a Roadworthy condition governed by the rules of the g'ment is eligible for a discount on their rego if its for limited use ..... ie: 90 days. Why do you have such a problem with this? (Not that I really care) but stop being so pedantic and argumentative.

[sudszy]

Originally Posted by Auslandau

SUDZY ........... What is there to argue about or are you just, once again, arguing for the sake of it? CLUB Constitutions have nothing to do with the rules of registration. All the gov is doing is allowing those who have a 30 year old plus car that is linked to a club and is in a Roadworthy condition governed by the rules of the g'ment is eligible for a discount on their rego if its for limited use ..... ie: 90 days. Why do you have such a problem with this? (Not that I really care) but stop being so pedantic and argumentative.

Originally Posted by Auslandau

Why do you have such a problem with this? .

I wasnt going to respond further here as I believe I have stated my concerns with the scheme quite clearly and it would appear many others understand and agree with my concerns.

However, you since you have "politely" asked why "I have a problem", Ill clarify further.
My concern is that there appears to be no need to belong to a car club to achieve govcos aims of maintaining a presence of historic vehicles in the community and that having to pay fees to these clubs and abide by whatever whims they care to put in their "constitutions"/list of demands achieves nothing towards the govco aims.

Perhaps Im wrong and govco sees a need for people to unnecessarily burn fossil fuels to partake in compulsory club cruises for a historic vehicle presence to be maintained. If so that is fine, but Im not seeing that written anywhere.