Humble Station Wagon Making a Comeback..

[BigBlue]

Walk through any supermarket carpark and there are still wagons being used...even though some are well on in years.

Remember the Camira wagon? Saw one the other day.

One point with "SUV's" is the running costs.
Tyres for example are a small mountain of money and from the people I know who have bought one none have bought a second one.
That last comment applies to hybrid owners as well so perhaps the image doesn't quite match the reality of living with the thing on a daily basis.

Peter.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by K_Man

Only reason my missus wants a soft roader, back isnt coping very well with getting bubs in and out of the car. We only have a tl magna wagon, but jeezus some of the suvs we've looked at have small boots compared to the poor old magna.

And this is the main reason we're offloading our wagon (well, not the only reason but a primary one) for a Territory because the higher seating position makes life so much easier with getting little ones in and out of the car. Your back is worth more than ideology, and the wagon is still easier than the sedan. Getting bubs in and out of the AU/BA/BF sedan literally is a pain, especially with a reverse mounted baby seat.

[fordlova8]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

And this is the main reason we're offloading our wagon (well, not the only reason but a primary one) for a Territory because the higher seating position makes life so much easier with getting little ones in and out of the car. Your back is worth more than ideology, and the wagon is still easier than the sedan. Getting bubs in and out of the AU/BA/BF sedan literally is a pain, especially with a reverse mounted baby seat.

Are you getting the new diesel one?
If not just stick with the wagon and the money you will save on gas you can use at the osteopath.

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by Mr. Grinzy

Everyone who's talked to me would know I'm a wagon fanatic and I could go on and on about them forever, I've written a report all about them for school. There's loads of excellent points in here that I agree with, and many I don't as well haha!

I'm happy to allow for SUV and all to remain, but what I do dislike is the tendancy of recent times to replace station wagons with them.

I will comment on the difficulty/easy of parking them.
I did one lesson before my driving assessment (1 week before) and I found the instructor's Getz frustrating to drive. Not hard, but it has quite large blind spots due to the rear pillars, and many new cars share that, as well as the sloping bonnet meaning I can't see the front!
So I decided to do the test in the AUII wagon. I can see all four corners very easily in a wagon, becaus the corners of the tailgate arent much shorter than the actual back of the car, and with the bull bar on the front, I can see that as well, I have no troubles at all parking or manourvering it. It's actually quite enjoyable weaving it through tight spots.

I'll be RTVing the AUII as soon as I can so I can have all I love about the Falcon body, but make it more capable of going the places I like to go.

I'd really love to create a custom retro styled wagon one day in the future... bold, big and powerful... over 6 metres long and 2.2m wide...
Wagon's are more fun than anything else to me.

Was that Carrol's Getz? If yes say hi to Carrol.

I think RTV'ing (now a noun) the Wagon would be a sweet idea (did you copy my idea). When you do do it... you'll have to show me.

[OffRoadFalcon]

Originally Posted by Buntz

Was that Carrol's Getz? If yes say hi to Carrol.

I think RTV'ing (now a noun) the Wagon would be a sweet idea (did you copy my idea). When you do do it... you'll have to show me.

Yep that was her! We were recommended to go to her when I first got my Ls in March, didn't actually have a lesson till 2 weeks before my test on 12 Sep! She's a good instructor, and thought I was ready, turns out she was right and I'm on the 2nd phase now! No more practical test.
I won't be seein her so you'll have to wait outside Coles one day to say Hi!

Mum and I watched the intructor with the red Getz just this arvo run over the island as he turned across the traffic light intercection at the end of the causeway road. Looked hilarious and we all started laughing! I had my L on the front obviously so it was ironic!

I've had the idea to swap out the current suspension in the wagon to RTV kit for about 6 years, so nope, no copying mate! With all of the RTV gear and the rear diff lock it should be able to take on a good many places, without most of the downsides of soft-roaders (I find SUV too broad a term, as it could include station wagons anyway)
Shocks are beginning to show signs of wear anyway!

You're welcome to come see when I get onto it!

[69Mach1]

Well all I can say is Handling!

I have 2 Subaru's a 05 Liberty Wagon and a '10 Forester. Both cars are AWD, both 2.5l, both have the 5-speed manual & obviously both are wagons, but one a typical small SUV. Which one do I prefer driving any day of the week....the Liberty, hands down because it handles properly. Mind you the Forester aint a bad steerer, not a heavy car at all, I can only imagine what a barge it must be to drive a large SUV.

The only advantage the Forester has is ground clearance and its a bit easier to get in and out of - thats it, hardly a trade off for a far superior handling vehicle. Also Liberty has more space across the back seats and also within the wagon area. Forester has higher wagon area but Liberty's is deeper and IMO more useful for bigger items.

I wont be buying another SUV for precisely that reason, they dont handle as good as a sedan.....you can't defy physics....

Long live the wagon!

[JG34JA]

Long live the wagon; the market is changing. 2 box design far more practical than 3 box design.

A hatchback is really a tiny wagon in the 2 box shape, again, far more practical.

I cannot help but think the Falcon wagon's demise was a serious mistake.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by 69Mach1

Well all I can say is Handling!

I have 2 Subaru's a 05 Liberty Wagon and a '10 Forester. Both cars are AWD, both 2.5l, both have the 5-speed manual & obviously both are wagons, but one a typical small SUV. Which one do I prefer driving any day of the week....the Liberty, hands down because it handles properly. Mind you the Forester aint a bad steerer, not a heavy car at all, I can only imagine what a barge it must be to drive a large SUV.

The only advantage the Forester has is ground clearance and its a bit easier to get in and out of - thats it, hardly a trade off for a far superior handling vehicle. Also Liberty has more space across the back seats and also within the wagon area. Forester has higher wagon area but Liberty's is deeper and IMO more useful for bigger items.

I wont be buying another SUV for precisely that reason, they dont handle as good as a sedan.....you can't defy physics....

Long live the wagon!

Handling?

So you obviously have never ever driven a Falcon wagon.

I heard a story about a guy who went to the transport department for his licence test in a Falcon wagon and was issued with a "Powered watercraft up to 6m" endorsement........

[OffRoadFalcon]

Originally Posted by JG34JA

Long live the wagon; the market is changing. 2 box design far more practical than 3 box design.

A hatchback is really a tiny wagon in the 2 box shape, again, far more practical.

I cannot help but think the Falcon wagon's demise was a serious mistake.

I can't see how it wasn't. In not making a new wagon, there are about 5 separate people I know who would've been interested in a FG wagon, who will now be looking elsewhere....
Id have considered buying a new Falcon wagon in the future, and my parents would have too... The Territory and Mondeo wagon simply won't do the job.
But now, I wouldn't buy anything Ford offers new in Australia. Not a single car.
Id be buying a new Toyota first! (86 or FJ Cruiser)

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Mr. Grinzy

I can't see how it wasn't. In not making a new wagon, there are about 5 separate people I know who would've been interested in a FG wagon, who will now be looking elsewhere....
Id have considered buying a new Falcon wagon in the future, and my parents would have too... The Territory and Mondeo wagon simply won't do the job.
But now, I wouldn't buy anything Ford offers new in Australia. Not a single car.
Id be buying a new Toyota first! (86 or FJ Cruiser)

Just wondering why a mondeo wagon won't do the job?

They are actually bigger in the back, use less fuel, are very safe, go just as fast, handle and stop better, have all the new technolgy that is still not available on FG2 and cost less.

These 5 separate people, did they previously own a BF wagon and what new vehicle did they buy instead of the "FG wagon"?

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by flappist

Just wondering why a mondeo wagon won't do the job?

They are actually bigger in the back, use less fuel, are very safe, go just as fast, handle and stop better, have all the new technolgy that is still not available on FG2 and cost less.

These 5 separate people, did they previously own a BF wagon and what new vehicle did they buy instead of the "FG wagon"?

MC Mondeo Wagon is much better in all aspects than the BF2. It will be my next wagon (titanium diesel).

[Smoke Pursuit]

A good indication of why we dont need a wagon is the Sportswagon... Look how many of those Holden dealers now stock... Stuff all!!

[OffRoadFalcon]

Originally Posted by flappist

Just wondering why a mondeo wagon won't do the job?

They are actually bigger in the back, use less fuel, are very safe, go just as fast, handle and stop better, have all the new technolgy that is still not available on FG2 and cost less.

These 5 separate people, did they previously own a BF wagon and what new vehicle did they buy instead of the "FG wagon"?

Good question.

Two main reasons.

#1
Check your facts. The Mondeo wagon actually is not bigger in the cargo area at all. This is obvious from both facts, as well as it's just plain obvious if you compare the two.

The Mondeo wagon has just over 1000litres of space with the back seats upright, and 2163 litres with the seats folded.

The Falcon wagon (AU-BFIII) has 1254 litres of space with the seats upright, and 2584 litres with the seats down. This is quite marginally larger.

My Dad is a landscape photographer, and has started a business selling finished products with the photos. We don't yet have a gallery due to profit not yet permitting, but have a very large mobile display that we use regularly for exhibitions at various venues. The AUII wagon comes in very handy due to its excellent every-day usability and the space is fantastic for the huge loads. We literally fill it right up to the roof. Any less space for us will mean more trips and more mucking around, plus more fuel usage.
It averages about 7.0-8.5/100kms around here, it does little stop start driving.
A replacement car will have to be at least this size or larger, and buying a van isn't yet suitable.

Speed and handling aren't a major factor for my parents... Mum may notice but not particularly care, and Dad wouldn't know a Porsche from a 75 Series.
And most of the tech and computers and all in the Mondeo would go unnoticed. Generally not many people use it anyway.

#2
Towing ability.
With the HD tow pack, our AUII wagon and any other Falcon wagon will tow 2300 kgs. We have the 1600 pack but may upgrade

The Mondeo petrol will only tow 1200kgs, and the diesel 1600kgs.

We do some reasonably regular towing, most often horse floats, and the more the car is rated to tow, the safer and more comfortable the whole experience will be.


Those other parties I mentioned didn't come from BFs. One lot a VT wagon, another a Rav4, one lot from a Camry sedan, one from a BA wagon... and one or two from AUs. All would have been interested in a FG wagon or a later model wagon. Some have kept these vehicles longer and others have bought whatever else they could, space usually being the main concern, as well as fuel usage.

I will buy the AUII from my parents when they are ready to move onto a new vehicle, which at this point a 3.0L Patrol GU5+ looks to be the most promising option as Dad wouldn't mind a bit of 4wd capability as well.

[OffRoadFalcon]

These are the kind of wagons I wanna see return!

But it's probably a dream that'll never happen, right? Fine, I'll buy one of these and/or build an even bigger retro modern one!

[Franco Cozzo]

What gets me is why do they measure boot space in litres? I'm not trying to cart water in the back of my car.

Maybe, for example, the new Mondeo station wagon fits in 10x boxes, enough room to fit in a 55" TV in a box laying flat, standard size pallet, maybe cubic centimeters/meters etc.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Mr. Grinzy

Good question.

Two main reasons.

#1
Check your facts. The Mondeo wagon actually is not bigger in the cargo area at all. This is obvious from both facts, as well as it's just plain obvious if you compare the two.

The Mondeo wagon has just over 1000litres of space with the back seats upright, and 2163 litres with the seats folded.

The Falcon wagon (AU-BFIII) has 1254 litres of space with the seats upright, and 2584 litres with the seats down. This is quite marginally larger.

My Dad is a landscape photographer, and has started a business selling finished products with the photos. We don't yet have a gallery due to profit not yet permitting, but have a very large mobile display that we use regularly for exhibitions at various venues. The AUII wagon comes in very handy due to its excellent every-day usability and the space is fantastic for the huge loads. We literally fill it right up to the roof. Any less space for us will mean more trips and more mucking around, plus more fuel usage.
It averages about 7.0-8.5/100kms around here, it does little stop start driving.
A replacement car will have to be at least this size or larger, and buying a van isn't yet suitable.

Speed and handling aren't a major factor for my parents... Mum may notice but not particularly care, and Dad wouldn't know a Porsche from a 75 Series.
And most of the tech and computers and all in the Mondeo would go unnoticed. Generally not many people use it anyway.

#2
Towing ability.
With the HD tow pack, our AUII wagon and any other Falcon wagon will tow 2300 kgs. We have the 1600 pack but may upgrade

The Mondeo petrol will only tow 1200kgs, and the diesel 1600kgs.

We do some reasonably regular towing, most often horse floats, and the more the car is rated to tow, the safer and more comfortable the whole experience will be.


Those other parties I mentioned didn't come from BFs. One lot a VT wagon, another a Rav4, one lot from a Camry sedan, one from a BA wagon... and one or two from AUs. All would have been interested in a FG wagon or a later model wagon. Some have kept these vehicles longer and others have bought whatever else they could, space usually being the main concern, as well as fuel usage.

I will buy the AUII from my parents when they are ready to move onto a new vehicle, which at this point a 3.0L Patrol GU5+ looks to be the most promising option as Dad wouldn't mind a bit of 4wd capability as well.

The Territory has only a 100L difference between the B series wagon with the back seats up, is more economical courtesy of the diesel engine, and has a 2.7 tonne towing capacity with the TDCI AWD option. Plus all the benefits it brings with it that few B series wagons (if any) ever had, like a 6 speed auto, curtain airbags and DSC, and of course electric windows all round unlike most povvo spec Falcon wagons.

[OffRoadFalcon]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

What gets me is why do they measure boot space in litres? I'm not trying to cart water in the back of my car.

Maybe, for example, the new Mondeo station wagon fits in 10x boxes, enough room to fit in a 55" TV in a box laying flat, standard size pallet, maybe cubic centimeters/meters etc.

Probably because litres is the most accurate measurement. That is my guess anyway.

Wagons in the past, mostly in America were often measured by floor space, most claiming space for a 4 by 8 sheet of plywood.
American wagons were much much bigger than anything Australia's had, that Dodge Polara Custom wagon I posted earlier has 2.7m of floor length.

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

The Territory has only a 100L difference between the B series wagon with the back seats up, is more economical courtesy of the diesel engine, and has a 2.7 tonne towing capacity with the TDCI AWD option. Plus all the benefits it brings with it that few B series wagons (if any) ever had, like a 6 speed auto, curtain airbags and DSC, and of course electric windows all round unlike most povvo spec Falcon wagons.

The new Territory definitely has some good strong points, but there will always be many people who don't want a Territory for whatever reason. I don't, and I have my reasons.
The B series basically didn't change since the BA, but the Territory did.
If Ford had released a new wagon it'd have most of those things the Territory does anyway.

In most ways the SZ Territory is better than the B series wagons for many people, but the wagons were never properly updated since BA, so comparison is a bit pointless. It's a different car.

I like the Territory a lot, I think Ford did a good thing with it, but I am sad that the Falcon Wagon had to be neglected and killed off. I'm sure there would have been a market for it still if Ford had done something further, and give people a reason to buy one. I probably would have in the future.

It is not to be so I'll be keepin' the AUII and see how many million kms and adventures I can put on it.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Mr. Grinzy

Good question.

Two main reasons.

#1
Check your facts. The Mondeo wagon actually is not bigger in the cargo area at all. This is obvious from both facts, as well as it's just plain obvious if you compare the two.

The Mondeo wagon has just over 1000litres of space with the back seats upright, and 2163 litres with the seats folded.

The Falcon wagon (AU-BFIII) has 1254 litres of space with the seats upright, and 2584 litres with the seats down. This is quite marginally larger.

My Dad is a landscape photographer, and has started a business selling finished products with the photos. We don't yet have a gallery due to profit not yet permitting, but have a very large mobile display that we use regularly for exhibitions at various venues. The AUII wagon comes in very handy due to its excellent every-day usability and the space is fantastic for the huge loads. We literally fill it right up to the roof. Any less space for us will mean more trips and more mucking around, plus more fuel usage.
It averages about 7.0-8.5/100kms around here, it does little stop start driving.
A replacement car will have to be at least this size or larger, and buying a van isn't yet suitable.

Speed and handling aren't a major factor for my parents... Mum may notice but not particularly care, and Dad wouldn't know a Porsche from a 75 Series.
And most of the tech and computers and all in the Mondeo would go unnoticed. Generally not many people use it anyway.

#2
Towing ability.
With the HD tow pack, our AUII wagon and any other Falcon wagon will tow 2300 kgs. We have the 1600 pack but may upgrade

The Mondeo petrol will only tow 1200kgs, and the diesel 1600kgs.

We do some reasonably regular towing, most often horse floats, and the more the car is rated to tow, the safer and more comfortable the whole experience will be.


Those other parties I mentioned didn't come from BFs. One lot a VT wagon, another a Rav4, one lot from a Camry sedan, one from a BA wagon... and one or two from AUs. All would have been interested in a FG wagon or a later model wagon. Some have kept these vehicles longer and others have bought whatever else they could, space usually being the main concern, as well as fuel usage.

I will buy the AUII from my parents when they are ready to move onto a new vehicle, which at this point a 3.0L Patrol GU5+ looks to be the most promising option as Dad wouldn't mind a bit of 4wd capability as well.

I was going to ask if you had actually driven a Territory or Mondeo wagon but after I checked your profile I realised you are not yet old enough to get your license so it would be moot.

Your parents have an AU2. There are AU3, BA, BA2, BF, BF2 and BF3 wagons available so if they really want a Falcon wagon they will be ok for at least a decade.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

What gets me is why do they measure boot space in litres? I'm not trying to cart water in the back of my car.

Maybe, for example, the new Mondeo station wagon fits in 10x boxes, enough room to fit in a 55" TV in a box laying flat, standard size pallet, maybe cubic centimeters/meters etc.

I guess it's because people roughly know the amount of space 1 litre of whatever takes up. When you talk to people about cubic metres etc most people get very confused.

I guess it also sounds better as it's a larger number. What sounds better, a boot that has 790litres of space or one that has .79 cubic metres of space?

Cubic centimetres is way too small! You would be talking hundreds of thousands / millions of them! If you want to get technical litres can very easily be converted into cubic centimetres, just move the decimal point to the left 3 positions eg 790. litres = 790 000. cubic centimetres ;)

I like car reviews that compare space by say placing the same bag / box whatever in the load area and then taking a picture of it. More visual and easy to understand.

I will also assume that a boot that is irregular in size is measured in litres as that will 'fill' every nook and cranny of available space. So, they are not technically lying, but to use all xyz litres of space is probably impossible.

[OffRoadFalcon]

Originally Posted by flappist

I was going to ask if you had actually driven a Territory or Mondeo wagon but after I checked your profile I realised you are not yet old enough to get your license so it would be moot.

Your parents have an AU2. There are AU3, BA, BA2, BF, BF2 and BF3 wagons available so if they really want a Falcon wagon they will be ok for at least a decade.

You're correct, nope, I won't have P's till early March. I've passed the practical driving assessment and now have to complete my log book (already filled the compulsory 25 hours and more) and the earliest I can do my final computer test is the day after my birthday.
Besides, I wouldn't go to a dealer and ask to go for a test drive without being interested in buying. I don't wish to waste other's time.

That is right. However Dad will only consider a car 2007 or newer and less than 100,000kms. So BFII-BFIII it is. The AUII has a few parts starting to wear and if I pay what the car is worth , the cost of 'upgrading' isn't huge at all.
The main upside of the Falcons is that they're just so affordable.

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by Mr. Grinzy

Probably because litres is the most accurate measurement. That is my guess anyway.

Wagons in the past, mostly in America were often measured by floor space, most claiming space for a 4 by 8 sheet of plywood.
American wagons were much much bigger than anything Australia's had, that Dodge Polara Custom wagon I posted earlier has 2.7m of floor length.

Whatever the measurement unit it all comes unstuck if the back end has too much rake in it. This affects your vertical space inside and impacts on carrying objects like furniture.

A lot of this discussion is semantics. There are tons of wagons in Australia, they're called SUVs/4WDs. The wagon never died out, it's just that Australians now prefer it higher off the ground.

I can remind everyone that the vehicle that started the "SUV" trend more than 40 years ago, the Range Rover, was originally known as the "100 inch station wagon" (100 inches being the wheelbase). There was no intention of marketing it as a 4WD/SUV (the latter being an American term that came along later). It was promoted for many years as a luxury station wagon that could go off road. I recall my rego certificate for my Rangie described it as a station wagon (and probably my Territory rego too but I don't have it with me to check).

The term refers to a body format and there are clear distinctions between a station wagon, hatchback, sedan, coupe etc.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Mr. Grinzy

You're correct, nope, I won't have P's till early March. I've passed the practical driving assessment and now have to complete my log book (already filled the compulsory 25 hours and more) and the earliest I can do my final computer test is the day after my birthday.
Besides, I wouldn't go to a dealer and ask to go for a test drive without being interested in buying. I don't wish to waste other's time.

That is right. However Dad will only consider a car 2007 or newer and less than 100,000kms. So BFII-BFIII it is. The AUII has a few parts starting to wear and if I pay what the car is worth , the cost of 'upgrading' isn't huge at all.
The main upside of the Falcons is that they're just so affordable.

So in actual fact you were never looking at new cars at all......

[nstg8a]

It's the old story, the ones that are the most vocal about what ford should or shouldn't be doing aren't in the market for what they claim ford should be building anyway.

[OffRoadFalcon]

Originally Posted by flappist

So in actual fact you were never looking at new cars at all......

At this very moment, nope! Future moments, definitely. How far in the future? Could be 2 years or ten, I can't say yet!

Originally Posted by nstg8a

It's the old story, the ones that are the most vocal about what ford should or shouldn't be doing aren't in the market for what they claim ford should be building anyway.

How can you be in the market for somethin' that ain't there?

And I don't see how someone who isn't in the market for a car right now doesn't know anything?

Let us move on.

[OzJavelin]

Originally Posted by flappist

Handling?

So you obviously have never ever driven a Falcon wagon.

I heard a story about a guy who went to the transport department for his licence test in a Falcon wagon and was issued with a "Powered watercraft up to 6m" endorsement........

Ha! What endorsement should I have had for my 9-seater Pontiac wagon?

[csv8]

Hyundai have relented and are bringing in the i30 Tourer in petrol, diesel with active or elite specs...

[OffRoadFalcon]

Haha! That's an awesome wagon!

Thats the kind I want!

"Cruise ocean liner up to 300m"

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by OzJavelin

Ha! What endorsement should I have had for my 9-seater Pontiac wagon?

Fantastic land barge that! Which American brands had that marvelous fake wood panelling on the sides?

I seem to recall some English cars had it too, they called them estate cars I think.

[chevypower]

Originally Posted by new2ford

Fantastic land barge that! Which American brands had that marvelous fake wood panelling on the sides?

I seem to recall some English cars had it too, they called them estate cars I think.

I think quite a few: Chevy Caprice wagon, Oldsmobile, Buick, AMC Eagle

[OffRoadFalcon]

Almost every single make and body shape of wagon in the States was available with the wood grain on at least one model. It was usually the top-spec wagon model.
Cars like the Ford Country Squire wagons, Dodge Monaco wagon, Chevy Kingswood wagons....... The list goes on and on!
Whats amazing is how cheap theyre available in he states as well! I know of a wagon for sale right now that I would actually buy if I had the money, beautiful condition, ginormous, top-of-the-line model for $6,000! Here itd be more like $30k! Add a few k to the 6 and itd be here on my driveway.

I love these cars, they oooze with adventure and good times cruising around (since youd probably crash if you didnt cruise, fine by me!). Always remind me of the kind of road trips many American families took in them.
I don't even care that they handle exactly like a boat! I wouldnt want it any other way, its part of the fun of them I reckon! If I wanted handlig Id buy a Toyota 86!

English "estates" usually did not have the fake wood panelling, certainly not as many did. I haven't done lots of research about them, though, so Im not sure just which ones might have. Theyre too small for me!