How Ford can build the XR8 and G8E

[Sprint]

pffft meanwhile they spend millions deciding what coulour interior it should be and parking assist lol(i mean wtf really)parking assist was made for who?blondes or blokes without arms?

Im not worried about fords wallet and they can keep making 60k cars and see where that leads them..

ecu,loom, emissions, there all pittyfull arguements in the scale of things.

[FGII-XR6]

Ford are smart enough to spend their money on things that will see a return instead of spending it on a loss making car that will please wannabes who will wait till they can buy one second hand but won't fork over the cash for a new one. if there was a dollar to be made they would do it

Originally Posted by Sprint

pffft meanwhile they spend millions deciding what coulour interior it should be and parking assist lol(i mean wtf really)parking assist was made for who?blondes or blokes without arms?

Im not worried about fords wallet and they can keep making 60k cars and see where that leads them..

ecu,loom, emissions, there all pittyfull arguements in the scale of things.

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by Sprint

pffft meanwhile they spend millions deciding what coulour interior it should be and parking assist lol(i mean wtf really)parking assist was made for who?blondes or blokes without arms?

Im not worried about fords wallet and they can keep making 60k cars and see where that leads them..

ecu,loom, emissions, there all pittyfull arguements in the scale of things.

Might be pitiful reasons but they do put a dampener on releasing cars on a whim. That's the way it is. It costs money and they need to be proven there will be a return on investment. That's why they haven't released a 500kw $25,000 car. They see no profit in it. Not enough will buy it. It will cost more too develop than what they will make in profit. No one can really hold that against them. People can wish for a cheap V8 ....... but no use blaming Ford for not producing it if they believe it is not worth it as a return on investment. They are not doing it just out of spite. They introduced the GS rather than giving the XR name to Prodrive at the time. If Ford had control at conception they might have kept with the XR badge ....... but then people would whinge about the hike they would have to pass on for a ball tearer of an engine!

Can those who can only afford driving a $2500 car whinge about 'only the rich can afford $15,000 on a brand new car? Can those driving an AMG complain about the price of a Ferrari? Its all relative and if something doesn't fit down to the size of the engine or the colour of the interior, the great thing is there is GM, Chrysler or something else that could be picked up. If Ford decide not to do it, it doesn't make them necessarily wrong ...... just they have decided it is not worth it,

Down the track, one day, they might come out with something XR8, G8E. They might find a case for a 40k V8. Cannot see it right this moment.

Park assist or incidentals sells cars and are universal between most models. The number 1 complaint these days is value for money. More buttons sell cars. A NA V8 cant go into a Fiesta nor a GT ...... or a G6, G6E, G6ET, XR6, EcoBoost ....... etc

PS .... au3xr6 just said the same thing as me but I just rambled for longer

[FPV GTHO]

Originally Posted by au3xr6

I was of the understanding that if they so much as change a cam or the ECU parameters they need to get it recertified that's why the XR6 no longer has different engine specs compared to the rest of the 6 cylinder cars but as I said I will bow to your experience and qualifications as an engineer

Its more so because Ford felt it would be too expensive chasing further NA gains given the package they had in '02 and where they had just come from.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Sprint

pffft meanwhile they spend millions deciding what coulour interior it should be and parking assist lol(i mean wtf really)parking assist was made for who?blondes or blokes without arms?

Im not worried about fords wallet and they can keep making 60k cars and see where that leads them..

ecu,loom, emissions, there all pittyfull arguements in the scale of things.

Well you seem very passionate about this. Would you like to tell us all about the new cars, whether that were Falcons or not, that you have bought over the years and what features led you to choose each one over competitive offerings?

Edit:

I went back 15 years to have a quick look for these $40,000 Commodores, that is back to 1998 VT 5.0 litre and then every model SS and SV8 since.

There are none. Even the povvo pack SV8 was 42,000 plus on roads which put it at about $45k.

Nor have there been any XR8s and in fact at $45k the cheapest XR8 since the AU1 was the FG and THEY STILL DID NOT SELL.

There are, however, historically a huge number of heavily discounted promotions run by Holden to try and sell the over production of SS sedans and even then they are STILL above $40k.

[Bossxr8]

Ford are still dancing around the XR8 issue and still looking at it. Word is they may still be tinkering with it, but wether they can get it to work who knows. Either way it wouldn't show until late 2014 with the update.

[jmac]

Originally Posted by Sprint

How about instead of making 2 tonne lounge machines with every gimic possible.,they make a lighter,smaller version(aka mustang size) and do a A9X(torana) on holdens aszes.

Just like the 80s when fuel was a worry.

The time of building super charged version falcons for only the rich should be over, they need a 40k sports v8.

who the ******* has 70k to spend on a car?

Lmao.

The segment is akready waterlogged with the hot hatches mate. 40k V8 will never happen unless used.
Let's be realistic.
Even then some of the people here will complain that it doesn't have brembos or leather.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2

[Dash_XR]

Originally Posted by Resurrection

They won't do a N/A version of the current V8. Why would you build a SLOWER version of the current V8 models? The volumes will be too low to make the idea viable. And if they did, it will just take sales away from the six cylinder turbo models. No way, Jose.

That's what I was thinking. The problem has always been the XR8 is too slow, putting an NA in an XR would be suicide.

There are heaps of low kay GS's for low 40's, can't see too many buying an NA for 45 unless they absolutely have to have a new car.

Want a G8E? Put a G6E kit on this. http://www.carsales.com.au/dealer/de...0&sort=default

[FTE]

Originally Posted by flappist

I went back 15 years to have a quick look for these $40,000 Commodores, that is back to 1998 VT 5.0 litre and then every model SS and SV8 since.

There are none. Even the povvo pack SV8 was 42,000 plus on roads which put it at about $45k.

Just in response of buying a new V8 under 40, well i bought a new manual SS ute in march 2001 for $35900 on road. It was slightly discounted from $38k.
I did look at ordering a brand new VX Executive V8 manual which was also $38k on road but couldn't justify it due to how standard it was even with a 6 speed and Gen111.

Exec V8 didn't sell real well but then I don't think it really ever did. Holden dropped executive V8 after VX and introduced the new poverty pack SV8 in late 2002. This is when you could no longer buy a base V8 holden sedan under $40k new.

[Sprint]

But i can buy a brand new SS(VE) for 40k, I worked for holdens and they make a car every 76 seconds, Im guessing they can make a car for $5000-$10,000(maybe add another 5k for development payback) too so what do you mean no profit?

Im damn sure it doesnt cost them 25k to make a car.

Anyway ive stirred the pot on this thread enough.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Sprint

But i can buy a brand new SS(VE) for 40k, I worked for holdens and they make a car every 76 seconds, Im guessing they can make a car for $5000-$10,000(maybe add another 5k for development payback) too so what do you mean no profit?

Im damn sure it doesnt cost them 25k to make a car.

Anyway ive stirred the pot on this thread enough.

No, you can buy a heavily discounted previous year, supersceded model for $40k.

Three questions:

1) Why, when we are 3 months into 2013 and the new models has been released are there still huge numbers of 2012 and even some 2011 SS commodores still for sale "new" if they are such a great seller?

2) How much is a 2013 VF SS RRP?

3) If you actually build them and they are so amazing why don't you buy one and help your employers and potentially keep yourself in a job rather than the "opposition"?

[flappist]

Originally Posted by FTE

Just in response of buying a new V8 under 40, well i bought a new manual SS ute in march 2001 for $35900 on road. It was slightly discounted from $38k.
I did look at ordering a brand new VX Executive V8 manual which was also $38k on road but couldn't justify it due to how standard it was even with a 6 speed and Gen111.

Exec V8 didn't sell real well but then I don't think it really ever did. Holden dropped executive V8 after VX and introduced the new poverty pack SV8 in late 2002. This is when you could no longer buy a base V8 holden sedan under $40k new.

A ute is not a sedan and an Executive is not a SS. I bought a 2012 FG2 XR6T ute that was a special factory order, as in not distressed dealer floor stock, for under $40k, sedans are a LOT dearer.

Do you really think I did not go and look up all the RRPs for all the various models before making that post?

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by Sprint

But i can buy a brand new SS(VE) for 40k.

RRP for a VE II is just under 45k...plus on roads and options.


Dealers are flogging off old stock to make way for a new model, so yes, you might find a discount on some SS's...

[pottery beige]

skinny wallets always whinge the loudest.....

[Smoke Pursuit]

Holden has been selling SS's for low 40's for the last 4 years... Nothings changed there, but I have been told an SS is cheaper to build then an SV6 (because of the crate motor), or at least that was the case when our dollar was high.

Ford can solve the XR8 issue, pretty simple really. Make the GS the XR8, add brembo brakes, dual zone and different wing to GS and bobs your uncle. Make the XR8 315, GS 330 and GT 345. All they have to do is put the GT tune in the GS and give the GT tune a bit of a top up.

Retail the XR8 at $49,990 and the GS at $55,990.

They can't build an XR8 for 40kay.

Make GS ute the XR8 and forget about a GS / GT ute. That way all the ute are Ford only (no fpv's).

As for the G8E business case its a tough one. Its easy enough to do, put the XR8 motor in and boom. The only problem is what will that do to G6ET sales? Its a story of robbing Paul to pay Peter. I guess the same can be said for XR8 vs. XR6 T.

[Rodge]

There are heaps of low kay GS's for low 40's, can't see too many buying an NA for 45 unless they absolutely have to have a new car.

Exactly, so people who claim they are waiting for a NA XR8 appear to be just kidding themselves.

As has already been said, the SC GS struggles to move the boost meter much, so its basically a NA 5.0 with the mildest possible level of boost and they're low 40's asking for demo's and such like on car sales, so what's the problem with buying that instead ? You even get the shiny FPV badges for nothing

[FPV GTHO]

Do they see the justification in taking a hit by adding content and cutting price to turn current GS into the next XR8 though?

[Elks]

This all makes no sense.

A fully optioned AU XR8 was the high side of $50k. And fully optioned in AU is bare boned compared to a standard FG. With todays wages and low interest rates, buying a new/ ex demo GS is less of a stretch than it was an AU/BA/BF xr8.

Yes there are some other cars "sport" with some other features lacking in the GS like front parking beeper or whatever but they do not come with a rip snorting good supercharged 5.0 that can be tuned to 380+ rwkw for minimal cost if you desire.

So eat some concrete and stop your whining, we've never had it so good.

[dimka100]

All the people who complain about the XR8 here are NOT new car buyers anyway! Ford knows this very well and hence they just don't listen!

The poor GS sales are a fact! Ford has already indicated the GT sales are about 10 to 1 GS ... real V8 buyers don't want a cheapo run about car, instead they are happy to pay the premium for the model with all the bits and extras.

[FTE]

Originally Posted by flappist

A ute is not a sedan and an Executive is not a SS. I bought a 2012 FG2 XR6T ute that was a special factory order, as in not distressed dealer floor stock, for under $40k, sedans are a LOT dearer.

Do you really think I did not go and look up all the RRPs for all the various models before making that post?

You didn't reference SS, you wanted to know where the new under $40k commodores were, so i told u. you even mentioned "povo" SV8 which also wasn't an SS but an exec V8 with a new name.
So to re-cap, an exec V8 sedan was under $40k. It was about $34000 plus on roads etc. no it was not an SS but shared same Gen111 and transmission as SS but did not have LSD.


I for one would be interested in an XR8 if priced like XR6T. I tried buying one years ago new but was stuffed around continuously by the dealer. So I went next door and bought a new SS instead. In my case the ford product was good enough but the dealer wasn't.

[Elks]

Originally Posted by dimka100

The poor GS sales are a fact! Ford has already indicated the GT sales are about 10 to 1 GS ... real V8 buyers don't want a cheapo run about car, instead they are happy to pay the premium for the model with all the bits and extras.

I would think that has more to do with the fact that only about a quarter of ford dealers are actually FPV dealers and they (the 3/4) sell the benefits of XR turbo, against GS and have for years. The FTE experience of only a dozen or so dealers proved that.
To rename the FPV GS to Ford XR8/ST/Falcon Sprint would at least enable them do that.

To my mind the exclusive dealer stuff is a nonsense. Ford / FPV are not Ferarri, they need effective distribution to sell there cars in volume. Yes they need to train up service people for limited models but, they have to do that for a handful of Kugas too.

Get these cars in front of people. They remain a well kept secret.

[Auslandau]

Wonder if all Ford dealers will now be able to sell FPV!

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by Auslandau

Wonder if all Ford dealers will now be able to sell FPV!

Maybe, maybe not.

Some dealer chose not to sell FPV, there are costs involved and you have to hold a certain amount of stock, which isn't viable for everyone.

[jmac]

To the complainers.

Why didn't you buy an XR8 when it was available.

Nuff said.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by DASH GT

Maybe, maybe not.

Some dealer chose not to sell FPV, there are costs involved and you have to hold a certain amount of stock, which isn't viable for everyone.

Yes ... and training etc ... but now its under the Ford banner there would be no rules they are bound by

[TheSneakiness]

Lol... this old chestnut yet again.

So much insight and truth from a few members (Auslandau and flappist) and yet the same people still whinge they want.

There is an "XR8" and its called GS. Badging means nothing in the long run.

[Sprint]

The market was flooded because at one point, 2005 holdens were rmaking a crazy 720 cars a day on three shifts, i often asked where the figjam are all these cars going!.

Ayway XR8 has always been 50k and SS is always 10k cheaper, but you get what you pay for and holdens are a dung pile on wheels.People know fords last longer but cost more.

I am a amature vehicle engineer and i was just plain shocked how they get slapped together at the factory that it discussed me lol.

making comments i am complaining becuase im not rich, is a kick in the guts to most normal struggling australians ok!.China have the right idea, profit by numbers of sales not inflated prices on products.

[Peuty]

This thread is going nowhere.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by FTE

You didn't reference SS, you wanted to know where the new under $40k commodores were, so i told u. you even mentioned "povo" SV8 which also wasn't an SS but an exec V8 with a new name.
So to re-cap, an exec V8 sedan was under $40k. It was about $34000 plus on roads etc. no it was not an SS but shared same Gen111 and transmission as SS but did not have LSD.


I for one would be interested in an XR8 if priced like XR6T. I tried buying one years ago new but was stuffed around continuously by the dealer. So I went next door and bought a new SS instead. In my case the ford product was good enough but the dealer wasn't.

Well in that the entire thread is about XR8 and G8E not XT V8 I stayed within the topic and if a SV8 was actually an exeutive with a new badge then that badge must me made of solid gold as the price difference between a VX2 Exec and a VY SV8 was $4200 while the difference between a VX2 SS and a VY SS was $700, all vehicles were 2002 plate as the changeover was Oct 2002.

At the same time, late 2002, A BA XT 5.4 manual was $40,360 which actually made it cheaper than the SV8.

They even made a BF2 XT with a 5.4 V8 which sold for $40,990.

Now this is EXACTLY what the whingers are moaning that would sell its bum off.

Full size...tick
V8 with same basic structure at GT engine but lower lever of tune.....tick
Minimalist interior and widgets to keep weight down......tick
About $40k RRP......tick.

I have never seen one ever and until I looked back through the catalogues did not even know it existed.
So I looked up carsales and guess what, there is even one for sale there with 48,000km for $13,000 but to be fair there are 11 V8 XTs from 2002 up to 2008 when they were discontinued there ranging for $5k up to $18k.

From the same time period there are 49 Ferraris, 41 Aston Martins, 31 Lamborghinis, 421 Porsches, 83 SV8s but only 1 V8 executive.

So it appears the Ford have already tried the "povvo pak V8" which they ran for 6 years through 2 minor and 1 major updates and it found that it was even outsold by exotic supercars and Holden did the same only to find that they did bugger all better than Ford.

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by Sprint

The market was flooded because at one point, 2005 holdens were rmaking a crazy 720 cars a day on three shifts, i often asked where the figjam are all these cars going!.

Ayway XR8 has always been 50k and SS is always 10k cheaper, but you get what you pay for and holdens are a dung pile on wheels.People know fords last longer but cost more.

I am a amature vehicle engineer and i was just plain shocked how they get slapped together at the factory that it discussed me lol.

making comments i am complaining becuase im not rich, is a kick in the guts to most normal struggling australians ok!.China have the right idea, profit by numbers of sales not inflated prices on products.

image

You were discussing it quite rationally with the differing point of view ...... but really now its just getting a little weird.

I don't know how old you are but ...... I bought my first GT at 47. Before that time ....... they were to expensive in my situation! I couldn't afford one! I only bought my Landau and had the money to restore it 10 years ago! I could not afford it before then. Only the rich (in my eyes) at that time could get one! I have bought second hand for years ..... luckily I have always had a new car since the XD as well ...... BUT I couldn't afford to buy the higher specked cars! I want an Aston Martin but at this stage I cannot afford one. There is no kick in the guts in any statements but if you take it that way I am sorry but it is the way it is. Some things people can stretch themselves to afford, some do it and get themselves in strife doing it and some can buy anything they want comfortably. Its the Australian way ....... some people struggle while some don't unfortunately or not ..... but if you are pooing on those who can afford it ..... well that's just very un Australian

As far as the pic goes ...... great isn't it So many people actually do buy a new car, take the hit and then a few years later gives someone the opportunity to pick up a bargain. What is wrong with that? Nothing wrong what so ever buying a demo? A 3 year old car? A 10 year old one? Its GREAT that someone else bought it new so it can be picked up as a bargains down the track?

I suppose they should just make second hand cars!

PS: Sorry Flappist ..... replied as you were closing I think ...... but had to put the last 2 bobs worth in