Goodbye Petrol and Diesel

[kmav23]

Originally Posted by FTE217

Correction,
Labours motive is only to gain the sucker sheep votes nothing more nothing less to gain power, they have no idea how to run anything but commit us to spend more and more just to live, the kmav23's of the world are the parasites of the future human race, lord help the millennials for nothing will save them in the future when they realise they have been taken for a huge green ride of bs.

Funny how China Japan are looking to double their coal intake quoted on radio the other morning.

China is now the leader and biggest spender or renewables and EVS.

They are doing it for their health, economy and national security not relying on outside coal imports.

[FTE217]

parrasite, ofcourse they are, largest growing economy with India.
They still are also investing largely in COAL and into the future.
China is building hundreds of new coal-fired power plants with a capacity equal to five times Australias entire electricity market.
Anyway I'm done with you - watched your posting in the Tesla thread, can't get the time back I spent posting this.

[Sabantien]

Not too worried by this article. It's just NRMA saying it, RACQ disagreed with it.

Neither the ALP or LNP will ever go against the fossil fuel industry, so it's only going to happen once other countries stop producing petrol powered cars.

I don't think there's an EV or hybrid on the market today that would suit me. Just drove 770km to get home on Saturday, then another nearly 400km return trip to drop the girl at the airport. And the Falcon would probably have done the 770 on one tank if I took it easy (It was telling me I had 750km range when I filled up).
While I could make it from town to town with an EV, the long drive would have taken a hell of a lot longer than the 9 hours we spent travelling.

On top of that I'm more interested in getting a 4wd with some long range tanks that will take me further than any electric ever will.

I reckon the technology will get there, as will the infrastructure needed, but we won't even be close by 2025.

Cutting taxes on EVs would be a great way to incentivise, but our electricity network likely won't cope with a huge increase in any case.

[Venomous1]

as long as petrol or some sort of ethanol is available my V8 will be cheaper than new car payments.

[Jastel]

Having travelled to Norway, Iceland and China and had discussions with locals there they are using the resources they have. Iceland has geothermal and hydro, Norway hydro and China needs to use EVERYTHING they can to provide power for their massive population.
But provide it they are...they want the lights to come on...full stop.

When I ask them what their power bill is they cant tell you...that is how small it is...yet they complain about the price of petrol! That is worldwide...even in the USA.

Australia uses coal because we have it...we need to build newer cleaner more efficient power stations...like China...but we still should use coal with some renewables...we do have a fair bit of sun to use as well.

Nobody overseas can drive for 24 hours and still be in the same state...like QLD and WA can, they hit an ocean or another country first. Even in the USA most people fly interstate due to the lower cost, Europe has trains...Australia has cars.

It should not be legislated...it may happen naturally but it doesn't suit all of us.

[ESPJG32]

I have read the article and they are saying "Even the longest journey beings with a single step"....

You cannot talk about France and Europe in the same breath as OZ
and geez in Oz some of those journeys will be real long if you are forever stopping to charge up the blo..dy batteries across the Nullabor or in Northern Qld or NW WA or in the NT.

For instance, you need to realize that Pt Hedland is 1800km out from Perth and when you get there { on how many recharges } you have another 1500km to get to Kununurra {on how many more recharges more}

....what ever it is that they are smoking must be good mind bending stuff.....Some people need a reality check.

Roadhouses in outback Oz - yes on the highways in outback Oz have generators to supply their power, they are not connected to the Grid...and they run on diesel, if you think the price of fuel out there is expensive now, wait until you are paying the roadhouse owner to charge up your electric car, you will be paying for food and lodgings while you wait...and for power supplied by them, you can be sure they will be rubbing their hands together.

[ute83]

Doesn't everybody live in the major cities though?

[kmav23]

Its easier to create and transport electricity to remote locations in Australia then fuel.

Many remote mines are using solar and batteries now instead of diesel generators.

[ESPJG32]

that is a hilarious statement.....get real for a change

[Falcon SXR8]

Originally Posted by ESPJG32

that is a hilarious statement.....get real for a change

Couple of deep cycles from supercheap and some jumper cables, have ya tesla charged in no time, can't be any more complex than that

[kmav23]

Originally Posted by ESPJG32

that is a hilarious statement.....get real for a change

Australia is dependent on imports for more than 90% of its fuel. The crude oil comes from the Middle East and is processed at refineries in South Korea, China and Singapore. It is then shipped to Australia as diesel, aviation fuel and petrol

Electricity can be generated in remote locations via solar / wind and stored in batteries or obtained from the grid.

[ESPJG32]

yep that's what comes from eating the peanuts you are trying to feed to the monkeys......you start believing your own advertising

[ute83]

Originally Posted by kmav23

Its easier to create and transport electricity to remote locations in Australia then fuel.

Many remote mines are using solar and batteries now instead of diesel generators.

Which ones, name them.

[PG2]

Originally Posted by kmav23

Australia is dependent on imports for more than 90% of its fuel. The crude oil comes from the Middle East and is processed at refineries in South Korea, China and Singapore. It is then shipped to Australia as diesel, aviation fuel and petrol

Electricity can be generated in remote locations via solar / wind and stored in batteries or obtained from the grid.

kmav23 - please don't ignore this post...

Just for everyone's information before you jump all over me - I support solar power etc and I feel there is no doubt that one day we are going to run out of dinosaur juice and let's hope when it does run out we have the technology and infrastructure to make the transition as seamless as possible.

It is why I was asking questions earlier in the thread.

Anyway I digress...

I have noticed quite a few members here that have NEVER got upset with anyone else on these forums but appear to be getting upset with you.

You appear to be making all sorts of statements and when people are challenging your statement(s) you are cherry picking the questions and only answering the ones that suit you.

I'm all for opinions being expressed, that is what forums are about, but when you are expressing those opinions as facts you really need to start backing up those opinions.

Either start backing up what you say or you are going to leave me no choice but to start cherry picking your posts and deleting.

I do admire your enthusiasm towards this type of technology but maybe not make your posts so in your face.

[kmav23]

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-44027042

Is Australia running out of fuel? PM orders supply review

The Australian government has ordered a review of fuel security after experts warned the country only has weeks of petrol, diesel and aviation fuel supplies left in its reserves.

The country's energy minister, Josh Frydenberg, said it was the "prudent and proper thing to do" but should not be interpreted as Australia having a fuel security problem.

The International Energy Agency expects countries to have 90-days worth of fuel in reserve, but Australia has not met those levels since 2012.

So how low are Australia's fuel reserves?
In January this year, the latest data available, Australia held just under 50 days worth of fuel stocks. Five years ago, it had nearly double that amount.

The Australian Petroleum Statistics 2018 cites Australia as having 23 days worth of petrol, 20 days aviation fuel and 17 days diesel oil in reserve to use in an emergency.

The remainder would come from overseas credits - a system that would allow Australia to buy from overseas if things went badly wrong.

Where do Australia's oil supplies come from?
Australia is currently dependent on imports for more than 90% of its fuel needs.

The crude oil comes from the Middle East and is processed at refineries in South Korea, China and Singapore.

[kmav23]

Originally Posted by ute83

Which ones, name them.

https://reneweconomy.com.au/australi...s-mines-45845/

Australia becoming the global centre for renewables for mines

As recent project announcements show, the number of Australian mining operators seriously assessing and investing in renewables is growing rapidly. Driven by favourable economics and additional benefits including carbon reductions and social license, major and mid-tier Australian mines are adopting renewables.

South32 recently announced its 3MW solar farm for its Cannington mine in Queensland for which SunSHIFT is providing its re-deployable solar solution. Once complete, this will be the second largest solar project for a remote, off-grid Australian mine.

Similarly, Image Resources is investing in a 3-4 MW solar farm adjacent to its Boonanarring mine and processing plant, which are currently under construction. This ‘behind the meter’ solution will deliver around 25% of the facilities electricity needs.

GMA Garnet, a leading supplier of garnet used in blasting and water jet cutting, has locked in energy prices for the next 13 years for its Western Australia operations through a long-term power purchase agreement for wind and solar.

OZ Minerals also recently announced plans to build a solar and battery storage facility at its Prominent Hill mine in South Australia, and is looking at further investments in renewables to support other projects in the region.

The mine also became the first resource company to sign a transmission cost partnership with a renewables developer through its recent deal with SolarReserve.

Finally, New Century Resources is investing in SunSHIFT’s portable and scalable solar system to supply power for the reopening of its Century mine at $120/MWh which is a fraction of the $400/MWh it had been paying to run diesel.

And Copper Mines of Tasmania (CMT) has an ambitious plan to make Mt Lyell on Tasmania’s west coast Australia’s first zero emissions mine through investments in electrification and renewables.

In addition to these projects, there is quite simply a wealth of major mines and mid-tier leaders at various stages if assessing and approving renewable energy investments for remote and grid-tied sites.

While these projects are not yet public, many will be showcased at this year’s Energy and Mines Australia Summit on June 27-28 in Perth.

This heightened activity has positioned Australia as the fastest growing market for renewables for mines. The main driver, of course, is economics. Depending on locally available wind and solar conditions, fuel savings from hybridisation can amount to up to 75%, according to juwi Renewable Energies.

The cost of solar modules is also falling by 3 to 8 percent annually. Battery storage is also becoming more economical with Bloomberg New Energy Finance predicting lithium-ion batteries will be priced at 73 USD/kWh in 2040 as compared to around 250 USD/kWh in 2017.

Senior mining representatives will meet with global renewable energy experts in Perth this June 27-28 to discuss renewables integration.

This 2nd annual Energy and Mines Australia Summit,features presenters from BHP, Sandfire Resources, Fortescue Metals Group, Rio Tinto, South32, Nyrstar, Oz Minerals, Australian Vanadium, Panoramic Resources, Montezuma Mining Company, Resolute Mining and Gold Fields.

Meanwhile, the business case for renewables integration is being underlined by successful landmark projects including Sandfire Resources’ DeGrussa Solar Project and Rio Tinto’s Weipa Solar Farm.

Currently, the DeGrussa project is offsetting more than 450,000 litres of diesel per month, which adds up to more than 25 million litres of diesel saved over 5 and half years or around 20% of the mine’s total fuel consumption.

[jmack]

Just read an article on the age about the australian energy regulator is struggling to balance the grid with the fluctuating renewables entering it.waiting for kmav to pipe in with" elon has a super flux capacitor that will fix it"

[Falcon SXR8]

Dont know how much information i would believe from that website

[jmack]

Spokesperson for aus energy market was just on radio confirming it as well

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by Falcon SXR8

Dont know how much information i would believe from that website

Confirmed on the radio, the Energy Regulator has had to step in.

[Falcon SXR8]

Sorry was referring to the article kmav posted

[wodahs]

Originally Posted by Falcon SXR8

Sorry was referring to the article kmav posted

i work road transport and i can vouch for the degrassi mine as i (with others in my company) delivered it all up there a few years back
and we have done a few others too as well as doing another currently
so for the money inputted and others to be following suit some thing must be working

and yes we do as a nation import a lot of things as we have shifted from refining our own raw materials to just exporting them , fuel being one of them
as far as i know we dont refine any of our any more must ship it out then buy some one elses back in , seems govco has made it cheaper for industries to do this than australia having a manufacturing industry

[kmav23]

For national security and economics reasons every country should try to be 100% energy independent.

[kmav23]

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-09-...fumes/10209762

Cancer risk from diesel fumes in underground mines prompts fears of industrial health disaster
Updated 15 Sep 2018, 1:44pm

Chris Davis believes diesel fumes in underground mines could be one of the biggest health disasters since asbestos.
WHO confirms diesel fumes carcinogenic
Chris Davis arrives at his presentation to the mining industry armed with a box of sugar cubes, but there's nothing sweet about his message.

The former mining engineer is speaking out about what he believes is one of the biggest occupational health threats since asbestos — the diesel machinery exhaust fumes churned out by heavy machinery in many of Australia's underground mines.

"There are millions of nano diesel particles in the size of a sugar cube, coming from the exhaust of every diesel engine," he said.

"And every breath you take underground, you are inhaling nano diesel particulates on a massive scale."

Nano diesel particulate matter (nDPM) is so small it is described as being less than a hundredth of the width of a human hair.

But Mr Davis, who is part of a West Australian-based working group set up to investigate the risk, said there was increasing evidence of its harmful effects.

The tiny particles can reach deep into the body and stay there for months.

"There is an ethical imperative to do what is right for society and we shouldn't endanger society just to make a quid," Mr Davis said.

Pollution 100 times the levels of a city street
Mr Davis has been presenting the latest research to mining executives and occupational health staff in Western Australia and Queensland, placing a sugar lump on each delegate's chair as a prop to try to quantify the invisible threat.

He said even with exhaust emission control processes that reduce most of the toxic pollutants, recent testing at a WA mine found levels of up to a million nano diesel particulates per cubic centimetre.

Mr Davis said that was about 100 times more than people would inhale if they were walking down a busy city street.

He also cited a recent WA study highlighting the high risk of lung cancer among miners working in confined spaces underground.

"Every mine that uses diesel underground is chronically affecting the long-term health of its workers," Mr Davis said.

Bill Musk, a respiratory physician at Perth's Sir Charles Gairdner hospital, is part of the team assessing the results, which are likely to be finalised by early 2019.

"The particles when they get into the smallest parts of the lung, the air sacs of the lung, can get absorbed into the system and circulate in the blood," Professor Musk said.

Man in striped shirt and glasses sits in front of bookcase
PHOTO: Bill Musk says particles can circulate in the blood after getting into the lung's air sacs. (ABC News: Claire Moodie)
"The World Health Organisation (WHO) has classified diesel and silica as cancer-causing agents and so the more of them that you get, the more likely you are to develop a cancer."

A clinical professor of Medicine and Population Health at UWA, he has specialised in the investigation and treatment of occupational lung diseases, including the asbestos-related condition mesothelioma.

He said it was not yet understood whether DNA damage can be inherited.

"We know from our other studies from miners at Wittenoom that there is a familial association with mesothelioma," he said.

"If you've got a first-degree relative with mesothelioma, after allowing for your asbestos exposure, your risk is doubled.

"So that's where the issues about studying DNA become important."

But Mr Davis said given measuring technology was now available, the mining industry could no longer afford to be complacent.

He urged the industry to explore its options, including ditching diesel altogether.

An all-electric piece of machinery in an underground mine
PHOTO: Canadian miner Goldcorp hopes to slash energy costs and diesel fumes with its all-electric underground mine in Ontario. (Flickr: Goldcorp Inc)
He pointed to Goldcorp, in Canada, which is building the world's first all-electric underground gold mine in Ontario.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by jmack

Just read an article on the age about the australian energy regulator is struggling to balance the grid with the fluctuating renewables entering it.waiting for kmav to pipe in with" elon has a super flux capacitor that will fix it"

Victorians finding extra charges on their bill, because energy had to be brought into Victoria during the summer.
one of those fine print clauses no one would even have considered before

“Victorian consumers have paid for the use of the emergency trader"

sorry off topic, but shows how we shouldn't be in a rush to turn our backs on any traditional methods too quickly

[jmack]

Just waiting for kmav to finish scouring the internet for an article on how elon will fix it with his new mining venture on mars.whoops sorry that was total recall

[Burnout]

Originally Posted by kmav23

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-44027042

Is Australia running out of fuel? PM orders supply review

The Australian government has ordered a review of fuel security after experts warned the country only has weeks of petrol, diesel and aviation fuel supplies left in its reserves.

The country's energy minister, Josh Frydenberg, said it was the "prudent and proper thing to do" but should not be interpreted as Australia having a fuel security problem.

The International Energy Agency expects countries to have 90-days worth of fuel in reserve, but Australia has not met those levels since 2012.

So how low are Australia's fuel reserves?
In January this year, the latest data available, Australia held just under 50 days worth of fuel stocks. Five years ago, it had nearly double that amount.

The Australian Petroleum Statistics 2018 cites Australia as having 23 days worth of petrol, 20 days aviation fuel and 17 days diesel oil in reserve to use in an emergency.

The remainder would come from overseas credits - a system that would allow Australia to buy from overseas if things went badly wrong.

Where do Australia's oil supplies come from?
Australia is currently dependent on imports for more than 90% of its fuel needs.

The crude oil comes from the Middle East and is processed at refineries in South Korea, China and Singapore.

This has nothing to do with anything - the reason Aus fuel stocks are so low is because Howard deleted the Government imposed Strategic Reserve.

[PG2]

Originally Posted by kmav23

https://reneweconomy.com.au/australi...s-mines-45845/

...

Similarly, Image Resources is investing in a 3-4 MW solar farm adjacent to its Boonanarring mine and processing plant, which are currently under construction. This ‘behind the meter’ solution will deliver around 25% of the facilities electricity needs.

...

Where is the other 75% going to come from?

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by PG2

Where is the other 75% going to come from?

Magic Elon dust?

[Sprintey]

> All cars legislated to electric by 2030

> (somehow the grid can supply it all)

> large solar storm overwhelms the (precipitously weakening*) magnetosphere

> the guy with the hand-cranked 2H 60 series Cruiser is the only person who has mobility. Rockwiz has mobility as well, as he runs classics.





* yes, the magnetosphere is weakening dramatically, as is the overall heliosphere. Solar system weather is going crazy - 33% increase in average windspeed on Venus for example. One result of Earth's weakened magnetosphere is that much smaller solar storms do much more damage to our increasingly common electrics and electronics. But of course we knew that before doing a paradigm shift in technology, didn't we?