The 'Automotive Environmental' Thread - Electric Cars/Fuel Quality/Alternative Fuel

[au2000]

Don't ggt me wrong, I'm not anti ev, I'm just against it being forced down my throat and told I have to change when the foundations for change are not even in place yet,
Maybe I'm cynical, but ATM in this country being a middle aged white male with a opinion contrary to the greens or another group is seen as being the devil incarnate, and yet if I state reverse discrimination I'm sneered at.
Tbh I love a tesla s, but none of the infrastructure exists or do the costs make any sence for me to buy 1

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by kmav23

They sell for what price they can get.

Prices are determined what the market is willing to pay at that time.

They sell it for far less than what we pay for, practically giving it away!!! and if coal is bad for global warming why in the **** are we selling it for coal fired generators overseas when we could be using it with improved anti pollution technology.

kmav23 the greens have sucked you in!

[snap0964]

I thought this thread was about Alternative fuels, not to push an all EV agenda. The below is word for word from the other thread.

Originally Posted by kmav23

No one wants to live near nuclear reactors. Australians don´t want nuclear.

I don't ever recall a referendum on this.

Originally Posted by kmav23

Terrorism, accidents and nuclear waste lasting thousands of years.Chernobyl and Fukushima... no thanks

So Nuclear hasn't advanced like other fuels? e.g. reactors using recycled Uranium ? Improved safety from meltdown, etc? Solar farms are immune to terrorist threat?
Solar panels create toxic waste:
- Solar panels create 300 times more toxic waste per unit of energy than do nuclear power plants.
- If solar and nuclear produce the same amount of electricity over the next 25 years that nuclear produced in 2016, and the wastes are stacked on football fields, the nuclear waste would reach the height of the Leaning Tower of Pisa (52 meters), while the solar waste would reach the height of two Mt. Everests (16 km).

Originally Posted by kmav23

I prefer my fish and children not to have 2 heads.

Solar panels contain toxic metals like lead, which can damage the nervous system, as well as chromium and cadmium, known carcinogens. All three are known to leach out of existing e-waste dumps into drinking water supplies.
Full writeup: http://environmentalprogress.org/big...r-waste-crisis
That's not to say this is Solar bashing, it's a simple comparison that any alternative fuel shouldn't be ruled out just because you don't like it. No fuel is without it's risks.

[Falcon SXR8]

The whole argument for or against new technology is so pointless when you have both sides just making up absolute crap. How is the public meant to make an informed choice when there is no unbiased, or agenda driven information out there?? My opinion in cases like this is the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle

[LeadFoot81]

Originally Posted by au2000

Don't ggt me wrong, I'm not anti ev, I'm just against it being forced down my throat and told I have to change when the foundations for change are not even in place yet,
Maybe I'm cynical, but ATM in this country being a middle aged white male with a opinion contrary to the greens or another group is seen as being the devil incarnate, and yet if I state reverse discrimination I'm sneered at.
Tbh I love a tesla s, but none of the infrastructure exists or do the costs make any sence for me to buy 1

Who's forcing EVs down your throat?

If Labor want 50% EVs on the road by whenever, couldn't you just be in the 50% of ICE owners?

The bigger problem is that your too busy fighting for your right (to party) when you could be looking at the middle ground like a level headed person.

[kmav23]

Technology and society is changing fast i understand this is difficult for the older generation.

Im sure when we transitioned from horses people were upset.

The reality is Ice cars are going to be phased out for mostly EVs.

As we import all our cars we can control how we transition.

Remove the luxury car tax and replace with tax on ICE cars above $50,000.

Give 10% rebate to EVs purchases.

Do this until 2025 when Evs will be roughly same price as ICE cars.

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by kmav23

Im sure when we transitioned from horses people were upset.

Yep, it was pretty tough. You know, I still miss the feeling of a saddle. But people are transitioning into all sorts of things these days, I'm sure I'll get by.

[au2000]

Originally Posted by LeadFoot81

Who's forcing EVs down your throat?

If Labor want 50% EVs on the road by whenever, couldn't you just be in the 50% of ICE owners?

The bigger problem is that your too busy fighting for your right (to party) when you could be looking at the middle ground like a level headed person.

Hmmm. I think my point was proven just in this comment,
First of all, I will be in the 50% of ice drivers until a ev or alternate vehicle is affordable to my needs ($30,000 mark daily) luckily or me I won't need a new car for at least 10 years so il worry about it then.

Who's forcing the ev issue?, you said it yourself Labor and the greens

As for me fighting for my rights and not being level headed, again proves my point that anyone who speaks out against the sheep are seen as pig headed, from robust conversation, solutions are found, sheep are just lead to slaughter.


Ps you obviously missed my post where I said I'd love a tesla.

[au2000]

Originally Posted by kmav23

Technology and society is changing fast i understand this is difficult for the older generation.

Im sure when we transitioned from horses people were upset.

The reality is Ice cars are going to be phased out for mostly EVs.

As we import all our cars we can control how we transition.

Remove the luxury car tax and replace with tax on ICE cars above $50,000.

Give 10% rebate to EVs purchases.

Do this until 2025 when Evs will be roughly same price as ICE cars.

Lol if being 44 makes me the older generation then heaven help us all,
However the 2nd part of your point is the most logical point you have made,
Makes total sense to give tax breaks to buyers of hybrid and electric vehicles and maintain taxes on new ice vehicles
Puts the incentive on buyers to chose hybrid and ev and puts a incentive on manufacturers to come up with Better solutions as buyers increasingly opt to vote with their wallets

[kmav23]

Once we eliminate all Ice vehicles, we dont have to rely on importing 90% of our fuel.

We can be energy independent, power from the grid is generated by ourselves.

No more wars and money sent to the middle east to spend on weapons which end up killing our soldiers.

People can then tell the government and companies to psss off im going off the grid with my solar and batteries...

No more complaints about govt and companies ripping them off with fuel and electricity prices !

Evs use 60 % less parts, last longer, and less service... so you can say stuff u to the mechanics!

[DMXR6T]

Norway - they forced people into electric cars with hugs taxes on ICE cars. For example, an effective extra $150,000 on a Hilux/Ranger.
Fast charging requires a lot of electricity and I think that it does some damage to the batteries.
Charge at home - 4 hour charge requires the installation of a special charger for around $3,000. next problem is for people that do not have a garage - are they supposed to run a cord over the footpath?
Load on the power grid - the power grid is already struggling with the closer of coal fired power stations. Extra renewable power will be expensive and somewhat unreliable.
Los of revenue - if people stop buying petrol & diesel then the excise and GST loss will have to be covered by tax increases elsewhere to cover the costs of roads. No free lunches.
Range - about 400 km max and that is travelling at maybe 90kph. Not much use in the bush or travelling from Sydney to Melbourne (would require 2 stops + slow speed + 2 x charging times).
Overall not well thought our by Bill Shorten.

[jgmdat]

Originally Posted by kmav23

Once we eliminate all Ice vehicles, we dont have to rely on importing 90% of our fuel.

We can be energy independent, power from the grid is generated by ourselves.

No more wars and money sent to the middle east to spend on weapons which end up killing our soldiers.

People can then tell the government and companies to psss off im going off the grid with my solar and batteries...

No more complaints about govt and companies ripping them off with fuel and electricity prices !

Evs use 60 % less parts, last longer, and less service... so you can say stuff u to the mechanics!

Can you move a little bit to one side please, your tin foil hat is upsetting my Foxtel reception.

[LeadFoot81]

Originally Posted by au2000

Hmmm. I think my point was proven just in this comment,
First of all, I will be in the 50% of ice drivers until a ev or alternate vehicle is affordable to my needs ($30,000 mark daily) luckily or me I won't need a new car for at least 10 years so il worry about it then.

Who's forcing the ev issue?, you said it yourself Labor and the greens

As for me fighting for my rights and not being level headed, again proves my point that anyone who speaks out against the sheep are seen as pig headed, from robust conversation, solutions are found, sheep are just lead to slaughter.


Ps you obviously missed my post where I said I'd love a tesla.

Mate you don't know if your Arthur or Martha lol

Not attacking you for having a different opinion, it just seems your angst is driving your whole attitude towards this topic.

As far as I can tell you're happy to make the move to EV if/when it suits you, and you're against EVs being pushed onto the public (especially if the infrastructure isn't there to support it?) That's my level headed take on what you're saying.

I'm of the same opinion pretty much.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by kmav23

Once we eliminate all Ice vehicles, we dont have to rely on importing 90% of our fuel.

Will all high rise apartments have separate chargers for each parking space, if so who will pay for the infrastructure?

If out of town people visit the city and use a multi story parking station, or even a shopping centre car park. Will every parking space have a charge point.

As you're in Syd you must also be aware that there a lot of people there who don't even have a driveway and have to park on the street. What do they do, run an extension cord out to their car every night?

[Citroënbender]

Case of Crownies for the first documented spotting of a Tesla on blocks, in Australian suburbia - wrecker's yards don't count.

Offer expires May 18th 2019.

[au2000]

Originally Posted by LeadFoot81

Mate you don't know if your Arthur or Martha lol

Not attacking you for having a different opinion, it just seems your angst is driving your whole attitude towards this topic.

As far as I can tell you're happy to make the move to EV if/when it suits you, and you're against EVs being pushed onto the public (especially if the infrastructure isn't there to support it?) That's my level headed take on what you're saying.

I'm of the same opinion pretty much.

Lol last time I checked my tooling I'm definitely a Arthur !
Mind u, that's now becoming a optional choice in some states.

My only angst on this topic is when certain members only push 1 agenda and use irrelevant examples to drive their point, choosing to ignore others valid points.

Hybrids have been around for donkeys now, hell we have had hybrid camrys at work from day dot as that became a fleet policy and I actually think they are not bad for what they are,

But yes, for me I know that a hybrid / ev will eventually be a car I buy, but for that to occur, our government must ensure the system is there to support it,

I just believe that there are more options for energy than solar and wind farms. For me, if the Aussie government honestly believed in developing a electric vehicle scheme, the tax breaks for their sales as kmav suggested earlier would already be in place, state and federal governments could lead by example by installing charging points at parliament and moving their gov vehicle fleet to a fully ev, hybrid fleet and support local councils to do the same at chambers and community centres.

[kmav23]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

Will all high rise apartments have separate chargers for each parking space, if so who will pay for the infrastructure?

If out of town people visit the city and use a multi story parking station, or even a shopping centre car park. Will every parking space have a charge point.

As you're in Syd you must also be aware that there a lot of people there who don't even have a driveway and have to park on the street. What do they do, run an extension cord out to their car every night?

That is the beauty with EV charging is its cheap and easy to install anywhere.

We already have electrical wires everywhere on streets.

Companies will install them and make money.

HK is full of Teslas and massive apartments only, they have a few EVs charges installed in the building.

California has already sold 500,000 EVs, Norway is full of EVS.

We have street lights everywhere on streets, chargers can be installed on any street.

[Charliewool]

Originally Posted by kmav23

That is the beauty with EV charging is its cheap and easy to install anywhere.

We already have electrical wires everywhere on streets.

Companies will install them and make money.

HK is full of Teslas and massive apartments only, they have a few EVs charges installed in the building.

California has already sold 500,000 EVs, Norway is full of EVS.

We have street lights everywhere on streets, chargers can be installed on any street.

image

Yeah, that’d work well in Caroline Springs!
Imagine the fun that the marauding Sudo gangs would have with all these leads and charging boxes dangling outta every 2nd car parked on the street?
And these heavy-duty leads... Copper cable? Ripe for the picking?

[marty351]

^^^^^
So many questions.

At least druggies will have a new income. (stealing leads and selling them)

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by kmav23

Once we eliminate all Ice vehicles, we dont have to rely on importing 90% of our fuel.

We can be energy independent, power from the grid is generated by ourselves.

No more wars and money sent to the middle east to spend on weapons which end up killing our soldiers.

People can then tell the government and companies to psss off im going off the grid with my solar and batteries...

No more complaints about govt and companies ripping them off with fuel and electricity prices !

Evs use 60 % less parts, last longer, and less service... so you can say stuff u to the mechanics!

Next comment you will be telling us Utopia exists

Honestly someone is pulling your chain and no I'm not being negative but being realistic as new technology infrastructure takes time to implement and the cost will be huge, look at NBN as an example as they cannot get that right.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by kmav23

That is the beauty with EV charging is its cheap and easy to install anywhere.

We already have electrical wires everywhere on streets.

Companies will install them and make money.

HK is full of Teslas and massive apartments only, they have a few EVs charges installed in the building.

California has already sold 500,000 EVs, Norway is full of EVS.

We have street lights everywhere on streets, chargers can be installed on any street.

image

As others have said do you seriously think that system will work in the suburbs in cities where connections won't be stolen or abused.

A lot of places you can't even leave your old garden hose out in daytime or it will get stolen!

You (conveniently) forgot to say anything about parking stations or apartment building underground car parks, except that "a FEW have chargers installed"

And then we have tourists

Caravan parks, who already charge extra for a powered site just for pretty much a TV and small aircon. How much extra for charging your car I wonder.

The same with Hotels, some of which charge appx $25 per night for parking, I wonder how much extra for charging the car as well.


Oh, and you've still not said what model Tesla you drive...................you do drive one, don't you?

[Citroënbender]

I don't believe it's legal for a ventriloquist's dummy to drive. :-/

[jmack]

kmav do you understand current carrying capacities etc.most houses would struggle with the charging systems of these cars ,with no minimum sizes anymore you can supply the house with only 32 amps if thats what it max demand comes in at.now turn on the oven avg 10a plus pop the kettle on 5-10 amp couple of tvs lights and aircon etc and there is nothing left ,yes you can charge of a night time when most of these arent used but dosnt help if you need it during the day,the power companies dont allow for the 32a per lot either they avg it down to save on their cost running smaller infrastructure.with batteries having a payback of about 12 plus years at the moment they are far from being viable.going off grid costs about 25k onwards depending the risk you want to take for days with limited sun.and as one of your previous remarks about going off grid but then staying online to export excess power back .on avg you would have to export atleast 8kw a day just to cover the supply charge.what field do you work in

[marty351]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

I don't believe it's legal for a ventriloquist's dummy to drive. :-/

Yes, a paid Greens party advocate pushing a cause before the federal election.

My guess is kmav23 is on the payroll and said party is recieving donations from various vested EV manufacturers, mainly one that begins with the letter "T".

Just a hunch.

[hayseed]

Originally Posted by kmav23

That is the beauty with EV charging is its cheap and easy to install anywhere.

We already have electrical wires everywhere on streets.

Companies will install them and make money.

HK is full of Teslas and massive apartments only, they have a few EVs charges installed in the building.

California has already sold 500,000 EVs, Norway is full of EVS.

We have street lights everywhere on streets, chargers can be installed on any street.

kmav23; Just out of curiosity;

How old are you ???

What job, Career, Industry do you work in ??? (please don't say PR for Teslsa....)

Do you sleep with your Tin foil hat on..??

[marty351]

"Once we eliminate all ice vehicles"

Spoken like a true communist.

[kmav23]

People have owned EVs for over 10 years.

Tesla S had been around for 8 years with owners living in apartments.

500,000 EVs have been sold just in California itself and the owners are happy with the charging.

So why do you think it's possible in America, Europe and China but somehow not possible in Australia.

[marty351]

Have you not being paying attention to all these threads?

I guess not.

[jmack]

250 posts across 3 threads going around in circles spewing out the same crap.there is no way it lives in australia

[Charliewool]

Uh huh!!

Numerous Tesla posts all over the place..


Tesla is doubling output every year. The brand satisfaction and loyalty is very high. They have the best charging facilities and and don´t spend on advertising. Why do you think VW wanted to invest in Tesla ? Tesla obtained billions in loans from chinese banks to build in China.
(Source..”themotorreport.com.au”)