Can Holden do anything wrong - Page 4

500SEC · 05-06-2009, 10:09 AM

"Bathurst" ended for me when the V8 supercar series commenced.... the 12 hour race in February is more "bathurst" than the V8 series.

jweb · 05-06-2009, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zoomie

My relative is one of the company accountants, so yes he gets to see the balance sheets, they dont talk figures (due to confidentality clause) but have said that there has been no "profit" made since 2004 and that yes 2008 FY was close to a break even year.

Also to answer another question, i was actually looking at buying a new VE SSV earlier this year but decided to go with the G6ET instead as i liked the turbo 6 and ZF box more than the chev V8 but after the issues ive had with my G6ET maybe i shouldve bought the commodore instead.... Im not a complete one sided ford fan, hell i had a MPS3 mazda (and a SP23 mazda) before i bought the falcon and also a VRX magna and before that a twin turbo subaru and 2 lasers.

There is an extremely high probability that you would have experienced the same amount of problems at a minimum with the holden,based on current academic journals and research.

Joshvee · 05-06-2009, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ltd

Just like GM Europe, Hummer, Saturn etc Holden is an asset of GM. GM has just filed for bankruptcy. Under corporations law when a firm files for bankruptcy and is liquidated all assets are liquidated to pay secured creditors. What this means is, that GM will have to sell Holden to someone and use the proceeds of that sale to pay some of their debts. I just don't know how a company whose parents are bankrupted can continue on as though nothing has happened and remain in GM ownership whilst those owed money by GM will be paid by a liquidation. Basically, all the assets of GM have to be sold off, and maybe re-acquired later. Now, to become insolvent GM's debts have to be higher than their net worth (including all assets/liabilities). Holden will have to be sold to someone; anyone in order for the liquidation to be finalised before they can regroup and commence trading as the new GM.

It's a bit more complicated than that, due to Australian and international law, Holden are actually somewhat protected against being forced to liquidate by its overseas parent company when showing profit or even potential profit. Especially due to the Australian government having a say in it all.

cosmo20btt · 05-06-2009, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joshvee

It's a bit more complicated than that, due to Australian and international law, Holden are actually somewhat protected against being forced to liquidate by its overseas parent company when showing profit or even potential profit. Especially due to the Australian government having a say in it all.

Its a shame international law did not protect Saab,Opel, Vauxall from being in the proceeds of being bought.

colossus · 05-06-2009, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeddak

Ask any cabbi which car they would have ,and why, (given that an increasing number seem to be buying Toyota though not all are happy either especially with Prius( no power))

In conversations with cabbies in Sydney,Brisbane and Hobart,all have said that they would rather holden (more power,more economy,this is mainly vz mind you) however they buy ford because the Falcon is and has always been more reliable Even the much lamented EA and AU got the nod over the equivalent Holden

Its all a case of down time ,a professional car cannot have excess downtime except for servicing and routine things like tyres,the commodore just does not cop cab work the same as the Falcon,
In the private market however this is not so much a concern so power and economy wins the day, ( We though had owned an EA,for 10 years and now the car listed below,so I suppose i am biased too ???)

:

Funny that the Falcon 6 has more power and better economy than the Holden bucket of puss. Don't let facts get in the way though.

jphanna · 05-06-2009, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by colossus

Funny that the Falcon 6 has more power and better economy than the Holden bucket of puss. Don't let facts get in the way though.

point to point the falcon 6 has it over the holden, as the FACTS prove. what is going against the ford as far as joe average out there is concerned, (who isnt posting 13.5 second quarters)....is its reputation (i STRESS-OLDER models), for blowing head gaskets. people have long memories.

Joshvee · 05-06-2009, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cosmo20btt

Its a shame international law did not protect Saab,Opel, Vauxall from being in the proceeds of being bought.

Thats because their respective governments don't have a finger in the pie and they are not as independant as Holden.
Although it's not, you could almost think of Holden as a franchise as far as legalities go. True how ever, if GM does drop holden (which it has no plans in doing at the moment) Holden will need to find financial backing elsewhere. But as far as GM breaking up the company and selling it's parts (true liquidation) it will have a big legal battle on it's hands and would most likely lose. I guess thats what I'm trying to get at.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jphanna

point to point the falcon 6 has it over the holden, as the FACTS prove. what is going against the ford as far as joe average out there is concerned, (who isnt posting 13.5 second quarters)....is its reputation (i STRESS-OLDER models), for blowing head gaskets. people have long memories.

Not to mention the older models (EA, EF for example) notorious reputation for gearbox slippage as it gets older. And that stupid rod switch setup in the gearbox that rusts which prevents it starting in Park or Neutral.

:

Joshvee · 05-06-2009, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EgoFG

Very strong words for a 'non fanatic' ;-)

Sorry I must have missed this part of your post so I will respond thus.

Ouch :gren: touché my man, touché

Quote:

Originally Posted by EgoFG

I am guessing by this you are claiming that holden fans, on holden forums do not bag Fords as much as Ford fans bag holdens.

Sorry to disagree, I follow LS1 (have done for over a year), and even contribute - My observations certainly do not agree with yours.

GMI is more civil, but that is not a holden or commodore forum.

Sorry wrong guess. In fact I find Holden fans (in real life) even more immature than Ford fans. I constantly get ppl telling me Ford stands for Fix Or Repair Daily.

: So let me reitterate my gripe. Don't sink to the level of diehard Holden fans. From what I have seen so far of Ford fans, (in real life) your all better than that.

ltd · 05-06-2009, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joshvee

It's a bit more complicated than that, due to Australian and international law, Holden are actually somewhat protected against being forced to liquidate by its overseas parent company when showing profit or even potential profit. Especially due to the Australian government having a say in it all.

You're right again, and here I was thinking it would be like a normal liquidation. Governments in both the USA and here are supporting GM and Holden respectively. Guess that means that the G for General in the names'sake now stands for Government. Government Motors Holden.

Here's a link mate.
http://business.smh.com.au/business/...0601-bsyc.html

Joe5619 · 05-06-2009, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ltd

You're right again, and here I was thinking it would be like a normal liquidation. Governments in both the USA and here are supporting GM and Holden respectively. Guess that means that the G for General in the names'sake now stands for Government. Government Motors Holden.

Here's a link mate.
http://business.smh.com.au/business/...0601-bsyc.html

I'm no expert (far from it), but from what I can gather the US Chapter 11 is nothing like Australia's Bankruptcy law.. GM have never had any induction of going into liquidation, there are just using US law (through Chapter 11) to clear some debit..

Joshvee · 05-06-2009, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ltd

You're right again, and here I was thinking it would be like a normal liquidation. Governments in both the USA and here are supporting GM and Holden respectively. Guess that means that the G for General in the names'sake now stands for Government. Government Motors Holden.

Here's a link mate.
http://business.smh.com.au/business/...0601-bsyc.html

Interesting read that, tks for the link. Oh by the way GMH stands for "Government Must Have" lol

Joshvee · 05-06-2009, 05:44 PM

oh wait lol Government Must Help

Oh dear..... see what I'm doing now?
You ppl have corrupted me......

:

Jeddak · 05-06-2009, 06:07 PM

(SIGH) My observations were taken from those who drove and worked cars in real life, not under test conditions,also my references were to 6 cylinder standard engines,not v8s ,supercharged,turboed ,or whatever,also note my final comment ,which i will expand some ,with the demise of the HZ/WB ,the link to Australia's first car was gone ,and the vb on commodore was a cheap german car adapted for australia
..and cheap German is just as bad as cheap anywhere else.

The Vt was the first commodore that even got my attention let alone interest
and while the current model is a fine car, I would still go for the falcon,simply because i am in love with straight six engines,( I started my trade with chrysler when the 265 was released)
a bit aussie too, the falcon is the last all (almost)aussie car

and for slipping transmissions... funny how much "lack of routine servicing"
affects mechanical things ???

:

R-Design · 05-06-2009, 08:46 PM

Looks like the Commodore won't be making a return to the US anytime soon.

http://carpoint.com.au/news/2009/lar...eborn-g8-15395

baltazaro · 06-06-2009, 12:42 AM

Regarding the Holden ad jingle "...football, meat-pies, kangaroos and Holden cars..."

I believe the original jingle was "...Hot dogs, baseball apple pie and Chevrolet...."

Oh yeah Holden is sooooo Australian.

Wally · 06-06-2009, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boss315

Looks like the Commodore won't be making a return to the US anytime soon.

http://carpoint.com.au/news/2009/lar...eborn-g8-15395

I wouldn't bet your house on it.... and it's not my house.

_2:

Gobes32 · 06-06-2009, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wally

I wouldn't bet your house on it.... and it's not my house.

_2:

So you think there is still a chance of Holden regaining their export market?

**Fordman1** · 06-06-2009, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wally

I wouldn't bet your house on it.... and it's not my house.

_2:

There WON'T be another deal for exporting ZETA to the US after the Pontiac deal is completed..............

_2:

R-Design · 09-06-2009, 01:31 PM

The latest on possible Commodore exports to the US:

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...2575D00000ADC5

**Fordman1** · 09-06-2009, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boss315

The latest on possible Commodore exports to the US:

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...2575D00000ADC5

Won't happen.....

I hope it does, but my GMH contact says it's a dead duck...

vztrt · 09-06-2009, 02:38 PM

What I'm trying to work out is Gov Motors chief executive says it wont happen and then the vice chairman says it may happen.

Could this be spin to not worry Holden customers about Holden going under or are the top execs at GM really that inept that they cannot talk to each other?

Wally · 09-06-2009, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barraxr8

Won't happen.....

I hope it does, but my GMH contact says it's a dead duck...

Who's your contact or rather what's his general position in the pecking order?

**Fordman1** · 09-06-2009, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wally

Who's your contact or rather what's his general position in the pecking order?

Development Engineer in the know....

Morale there is pretty low ATM.

I hope he's wrong.

4Vman · 09-06-2009, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barraxr8

Won't happen.....

I hope it does, but my GMH contact says it's a dead duck...

Heard a similar thing, they re talking up a positive "spin" because morale is low and they're trying to bolster how they're perceived internally and externally.. ... but the reality is its not good.

Ryan · 09-06-2009, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joshvee

Sorry wrong guess. In fact I find Holden fans (in real life) even more immature than Ford fans. I constantly get ppl telling me Ford stands for Fix Or Repair Daily.

: So let me reitterate my gripe. Don't sink to the level of diehard Holden fans. From what I have seen so far of Ford fans, (in real life) your all better than that.

I find Ford fans can be just as immature at times in real life. My brother has a mate who is Ford to the bone, and he's convinced his 15 second XF panel van will beat EVERY Holden ever made. Including late model HSVs. Such a lost cause.

Obviously one idiot doesn't account for all. Thankfully most of the Ford fans I know are decent blokes, so in return we get along fine.

Wally · 09-06-2009, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barraxr8

Development Engineer in the know....

Morale there is pretty low ATM.

I hope he's wrong.

Yes it seems a shame that a growing fan base in the US are frustrated with GM's apparent prevarication or ineptitude. I don't blame consumers being worried about parts backup when considering the G8. The lack of corporate vision must be weighing on the local staff.

There is no shortage of interest for both the SS and FPV in the US, but the hokey attitude of Detroit with their home grown junk is forever a blocker. Meanwhile Euro and Korean/Jap imports continue to eat away at market share.

Is there any rumours the special order Alloytec 2.8 turbo will flow on from the Cadillac into the Commodore?

Wally · 09-06-2009, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan

I find Ford fans can be just as immature at times in real life. My brother has a mate who is Ford to the bone, and he's convinced his 15 second XF panel van will beat EVERY Holden ever made. Including late model HSVs. Such a lost cause.

Obviously one idiot doesn't account for all. Thankfully most of the Ford fans I know are decent blokes, so in return we get along fine.

Fortunately for me, I don't personally know any Ford/Holden/Nissan/XYZ owners that carry on the way many do with the anonymity of discussion boards and nics. All my petrol head friends are interested in sharing and innovating, regardless of the badge on the bonnet; we argue, we tease, etc, but we admire cars for what they are, warts and all.

Ryan · 09-06-2009, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wally

Fortunately for me, I don't personally know any Ford/Holden/Nissan/XYZ owners that carry on the way many do with the anonymity of discussion boards and nics. All my petrol head friends are interested in sharing and innovating, regardless of the badge on the bonnet; we argue, we tease, etc, but we admire cars for what they are, warts and all.

Yeah same here. I might be a Holden fan, but I still take interest in other makes. Even when I go to a car show I look at all the nice Falcons, Mustangs, Escorts, Cortinas etc with my HRT jacket on. I don't really care.

My neighbour is a Ford fan, and we always rip into each other when the V8s are on, but as of late he's had the upper hand lol. Oh well. It's all fun in the end.

Wally · 09-06-2009, 05:48 PM

Forget the Fords and Holdens, Jap mechanicals is where it's at. :hihi:

GT69 · 09-06-2009, 06:50 PM

I think if we are talking 'fanboys', that most share other attributes, holden/ford or jap cars, All have no idea about classics.

I lost interest in car clubs and social events when a bloody excel with neons and shiny wheels gets more interest than a restored GT falcon......seems to be the way of the current generation 'car people'. I must admit im alittle one eyed as i find the commodore with the add on 'fully sick' 'where'd you get your front bar done bro' body kits seems to be the main culprit for such ideology.

I think we'd all love to see HSV's and FPV's get into the US market....and im sure the US market would love that too. Unfortunately as Detroit loses its grip (lol read already lost) It seems intent on doing anything other than rinse and repeat.

These are the same guys pushing the 'Global platform' logic........read 'global' as 'US'