Toyota workers warned

[GREGL]

The old runs are a funny thing you can be up all night with them and by daylight they've passed , yet your left feeling wasted with both a lack of energy and sleep deprived . I am yet to hear of anyone who has been able to visit a doctor while actually having suffering the runs . Do you take a sample to the doctor/chemist for verification or do you show your boss and save the hassle of paying the middleman .

[Bill M]

Originally Posted by BA GT-HO

gtfpv you do realise that if everyone in the world lived like an Australian there would be no planet Earth?

Essentially what you are saying is it's the poor guys fault.

It's the poor guys fault he accepts a job with low wages in a country of 40% unemployment.

It's the poor guys fault he accepts a job with low wages to feed his family.

It's the poor guys fault that all he wants for his family is a better life. One like we have over here already. With a GT in the shed.

We need to meet somewhere in the middle for this to be sustainable for everyone one, well off and poor. By expanding the gap further and further via more wage increases, hanging onto conditions that are just ridiculous all this does is force companies to look overseas to the poor guys on low wages to build the cars.

Unions don't care about you. When will you get that? All they care about is memberships, getting your money and their own political aspirations. When you are out on strike without pay, guess who is collecting penalty rates? Your fearless Union secretary!

It is legal stand over tactics in some cases.

I do agree with your statement of meeting in the middle and less of the polarized positions these issues tend to dissolve into.
BUT I am only interested in Australian manufacturing, Australian jobs, Australian self reliance, leave the "poor guys" overseas out of it please.
They don't give a stuff about us.

[Cheese3]

@BA GT-HO

Question: do you believe that someone who went to university should automatically be reward more benefits than someone who took the apprenticeship path?

[BA GT-HO]

Not really, I am a tradesman working in a factory. I don't understand the question? What benefits? I just get frustrated by bludgers that constantly do wrong and hide behind the union. I am frustrated by the way the union deals with EBA negotiations. Hearing a senior AMWU secretary saying 'We have shut 3 places down all ready over EBA negotiations and were not afraid to do it again' is to me very concerning.

All you staunch unionists need to go overseas particularly Asia and see how lucky you are here. But that doesn't matter does it? Your entitled to everything you can dream of aren't you.

[BA GT-HO]

And no I don't want us to go back to slavery, I want a sustainable manufacturing sector so we can actually produce things here and have jobs for many years. I just can't believe people are not willing to give a little and actually think ahead. Sure you might get your 4 hour blood giving bludge, but you'll be doing a lot more nothing without a job!

[BA GT-HO]

Originally Posted by trublu

When was the last time you worked in manufacturing? you think all employees live in the past when it was the good times, well I can tell you for fact most employees have given up perks & tow the line but still are getting screwed.

I'm not talking just car industry but also others where workers are **** frightened to lose their jobs & are willing to sacrifice to save their positions & the industry they work in.

Last time I worked in manufacturing was Friday. Tell me what these people got 'screwed' (shafted, same terms as usual).

I just got 'shafted' out of a $500 bonus for not taking all my sick leave. Wow. Massive loss. Who I really feel for is the guys that lose everything.

[mik]

For me its not just the workers or. Just unions , its is a whole combination of things, it is also our decision makers and their policys.
We did not end up at this economic destination we are at by playing spin the bottle.
Our pollies have steered us down this path of globalization whether we like it or not decades ago,.

Either we work harder for less /lower our living standards if we want to continue down the globalization path.............. or say goodbye to these industries, ie, sink or swim,
this is the hand we are dealt with ...........and I can't see the genie being put back in the bottle anytime soon............... unless a world event occurs that changes things.

[xbman//]

ah i love it this article mentions all the things the workers dont care about losing (i should know i work for toyota) its the thing like changing the steps involved in diseplenary actions that would allow your boss to say ah well ive warned you 1.2.3 your out we the workers asked for some negotiation with toyota and were told flat out NO. friends i have in other areas even said toyota management was getting a good laugh out of this these are our jobs and our livelihoods and these dogs are just laughing at the fact that they could have the ability to fire someone like me and replace me with someone who will work for less. Toyota is gone

[cheap]

Total restructuring is required. Zero unions, high levels of automation with few people doing the nuts/bolts of yesteryear. People on individual contracts, pay commensurate to skills and duties. These are some of the items required.

As they say you have to hurt to be kind, break a few eggs to make omelets. The average Joe on the Toyota floor is probably being told that the union is looking after him, this is a quaint way of maintaining denial as Toyota's days are numbered. Newsflash, the shop floor union leaders have already secured their next gig. Last one left, turn out the lights.

[jpblue1000]

Originally Posted by xbman//

its the thing like changing the steps involved in diseplenary actions that would allow your boss to say ah well ive warned you 1.2.3 your out

friends i have in other areas even said Toyota management was getting a good laugh out of this these are our jobs and our livelihoods

3 warnings. If I screw up Im gone, no ifs, buts or maybes.

And a friend of a friend told me anecdotes mean nothing and are probably baseless biased rumor mongering.

If management are laughing at being able to replace you they believe they will be staying in Australia manufacturing, if they aren't they wont be laughing, their jobs are on the chopping block also.
I wish you and yours the best with the decisions you need to make, the way oi see it the wrong one and the rest of the 30,000 large industry is looking for work...at the same time.

JP

[xbman//]

mate the car industry is gone they are just they are just looking for the cheapest way out but hey ill take a pay cut and lose my job just to make these 30.000 people feel better when they lose there job anyway and you know what toyota will be the only ones laughing then cause there there only ones coming out on top im now done with this conversation thanks for making me feel like crap because i dont want to lose every right i have fought for year to get from this company

[superyob]

Originally Posted by Cheese3

@BA GT-HO

Question: do you believe that someone who went to university should automatically be reward more benefits than someone who took the apprenticeship path?

Absolutely not!!! As someone who did both, the myth that university learning is somehow superior does not wash with me...

[Bill M]

Originally Posted by superyob

Absolutely not!!! As someone who did both, the myth that university learning is somehow superior does not wash with me...

Some of the best engineers I have worked with have come up from trade positions. The benefit is enormous.

[Bill M]

Originally Posted by cheap

Total restructuring is required. Zero unions, high levels of automation with few people doing the nuts/bolts of yesteryear. People on individual contracts, pay commensurate to skills and duties. These are some of the items required.

As they say you have to hurt to be kind, break a few eggs to make omelets. The average Joe on the Toyota floor is probably being told that the union is looking after him, this is a quaint way of maintaining denial as Toyota's days are numbered. Newsflash, the shop floor union leaders have already secured their next gig. Last one left, turn out the lights.

What bollocks!
That is the extreme end and like most extremism the honeymoon would very short.
Unions MUST change with the flow of economic events but to leave it all up to the administrations like the ones now in office you will be ground underfoot in no time.
Consultation and mutual benefit, other countries do it why can't Australia?

[tweeked]

Love all of the "managers are just idiots and want to sack all of the workers". The first part of the statement makes you sound like a fourteen year old kid passing judgement on his parents. We have all been there and now know we had no idea what we were talking about. Oh And the second part. In all my years in business I have never known a manager to want to get rid of a good worker. If times are tough you would find any way to keep the good guys on. If you fear being victimised out of a job, take a good hard look at yourself first, you are probably not worth keeping.

[Struggo]

Welcome to the global economy guys, you can either get on board or be left behind.

In regards to Toyota and its efforts in reducing cost, its a given that if they don't, you can say good bye. Auto manufacture is a global industry, Australia cannot hide behind low volume and protective tariffs any longer as is evident with Ford and Holden. With a global mindset comes a global cost position.

To those affected I fill your pain, its been happening for years in the print, textile and metal industries with many manufacturing jobs now only available offshore. I guess for those at Toyota, the outcome is either one of the following,

1/ Don’t budge and gain as many entitlements as you can obtain before closure.

2/ Come to party and secure your employment beyond 2017/18.

3/ Up skill and find a new job as the $$$ on offer are no longer available, which is mainly due to the market price (pay rate) shifting with the rise of Asian auto manufacture and the high cost of doing business in this country.

[cheap]

Originally Posted by Bill M

What bollocks!
That is the extreme end and like most extremism the honeymoon would very short.
Unions MUST change with the flow of economic events but to leave it all up to the administrations like the ones now in office you will be ground underfoot in no time.
Consultation and mutual benefit, other countries do it why can't Australia?

Don't shoot the messenger.

Every heard of Globalisation, ever worked out what it means and where it will lead to.

You can have all the feel good, soft touch, union will protect me, united we will not be defeated - BUT the party is over - get over it and find a new gig (just like the union leaders already have)

[vanman_75]

Originally Posted by GREGL

Ah Landcruisers , overpriced and over rated , however they give people what they want . A patrol in earlier guise was competitive until they put the 3 ltr in it and left it to Toyota to get all the market. 4.8 petrol patrol , crazy .
Anyway if you were in business to make a buck and you had the only product that it didn't matter what price you put on it still sells like hotcakes what would you do ? Besides they are nothing to do with local production are they ?
In the context of this thread so far , being a battling wage earner that most portray , it has been a long time since a landcruiser has been an affordable vehicle to buy new , let alone run .

My point more directed at the huge profits , the money just disappears.like the billions banks, mining companies , car manufacturers etc etc .if you make huge money in one country and only small profits in the other , then it's still balanced ..because the downside of the company leaving reduces the spending and wealth in that particular area .. when we have no jobs nobody can buy a car imported or not ...so they will suffer more by leaving in the long run .

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by xr6turboford

I see you haven't heard the latest, you can now go to the chemist and get a certificate for a sickie and your employer has to except it. The government brought this in to help free up the GP'S so next time you get the runs you now know where to go

Yeah its still frowned upon though, management knows you're full of **** when you turn in a stat dec for a sickie.

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by BA GT-HO

And no I don't want us to go back to slavery, I want a sustainable manufacturing sector so we can actually produce things here and have jobs for many years. I just can't believe people are not willing to give a little and actually think ahead. Sure you might get your 4 hour blood giving bludge, but you'll be doing a lot more nothing without a job!

i know what your on about . i think 4 hrs pay for donating blood instead of making cars is quite disgracefull . i dont think some unionist thought it up as some sort of joyfull experience though . it was probabaly introduced by toyota management doing the community a favour . ( seriously what do you think)? giving blood isnt exactly a GOLF DAY is it . i think i'd rather get 4hrs pay to stay on the JOB .
Have you ever been involved in helping the company out , giving a little now to benifit job security later ? If so, HOW'D IT GO FOR YOU ??? . I have, an extra 200hrs a year for nothing x460 people , just once they said!!!! we're struggling . so the labour agreed ,COME NEXT YEARS years eba . that extra 200hrs was factored in to eba negotiations by management ( not negotiable) , union took it to court , and lost under ( precedence had been set by agreement last year ) jeee thanks . we we're really glad we did our bit for the company . some years later the place shut down over night , just after senior management told us they'd scored a 20 year lease .
' shove your MORALS UP INTO A DARK PLACE , UNTILL YOU GET SOME EXPERIENCE RATHER THAN THE MORAL HIGH GROUND !!

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by xbman//

ah i love it this article mentions all the things the workers dont care about losing (i should know i work for toyota) its the thing like changing the steps involved in diseplenary actions that would allow your boss to say ah well ive warned you 1.2.3 your out we the workers asked for some negotiation with toyota and were told flat out NO. friends i have in other areas even said toyota management was getting a good laugh out of this these are our jobs and our livelihoods and these dogs are just laughing at the fact that they could have the ability to fire someone like me and replace me with someone who will work for less. Toyota is gone

thanks for telling it like it is . however people will still tell you your wrong and they know better than you , . LOL

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by tweeked

Love all of the "managers are just idiots and want to sack all of the workers". The first part of the statement makes you sound like a fourteen year old kid passing judgement on his parents. We have all been there and now know we had no idea what we were talking about. Oh And the second part. In all my years in business I have never known a manager to want to get rid of a good worker. If times are tough you would find any way to keep the good guys on. If you fear being victimised out of a job, take a good hard look at yourself first, you are probably not worth keeping.

I AGREE Totally here . but you and others being good managers aren't going to save toyota . the title of this thread is ''TOYOTA WORKERS WARNED''. WHOM MIGHT THAT BE BY ?????

[Bill M]

Originally Posted by cheap

Don't shoot the messenger.

Every heard of Globalisation, ever worked out what it means and where it will lead to.

You can have all the feel good, soft touch, union will protect me, united we will not be defeated - BUT the party is over - get over it and find a new gig (just like the union leaders already have)

Don't start with the globalisation talk to justify your opinion and your version of the facts. Some of us were in this at the beginning.
If you had the ability to comprehend my post you would realise I am not a union man nor a management basher, just call it as I have seen it over the past 36 years from both on the tools and a management perspective.

Again so you can understand, unions need to evolve in order to safeguard the very people they represent. This is called workplace flexibility

Leaving all the calls to management and they will try to get away with anything they can so some safeguards are required that both parties can agree to in a mature fashion. Other countries do it and to peddle the line that it is not possible is a nonsense.

[DJR MAN]

Hey, all you wanna be managers out there, Are you enjoying a public holiday today with your family and friends? You might want to thank a Union for that.

[dmat2391]

alright it's not economics 101.... actually second year but the complete lack of understanding of "game theory" all parties seem to show, scares me a little. Those in the negotiating position should have a working knowledge of this, and I must agree here in Australia, management/gov and unions seem to only want to hit a brick wall with their foreheads. Best example for those here old enough to remember is the super league debacle of the 90's.

[jpblue1000]

Originally Posted by DJR MAN

Hey, all you wanna be managers out there, Are you enjoying a public holiday today with your family and friends? You might want to thank a Union for that.

This really shouldn't be an argument about the value of unions. the Union movement has produced great outcomes for almost every worker or paid employe. There is no denying that ( though they didn't negotiate my 8 weeks paid leave a year that I managed myself so not all perks are based around a unions power).

This topic and the story coming from it must be the individual worker making a decision for themselves about their future based on the evidence thay have. As I keep saying the toyota worker knows deep down their position, their skills and contribution, and the companies likely future direction. Do they relinquish some frivolous awards and take a penalty on some more serious ones to possibly keep a job or do they side with the union and possibly loose a job. And I know if I was to loose my job in this economy and then have to compete with the other 30,000 members of that collapsed industry, even if deep down I considered myself the best employee, Id be worried. Thats the crux of the employees position as I see it. With a job you can transition out or wait till the good times return, without a job your ******, and no union can protect the unemployed.

JP

[gtfpv]

yeah and i would like to apoligise for defending people who go to work . it's something i cannot help when anyone , normally another worker ridicules them for companies failing .
i dont think anybody who goes to work wants to see the place they make a living fail . it really concerns me though how the stigmatism always points to the people employed suggesting it's thier fault .
being called a bludger cause you have a job and support yourself is something i think is pure evil . and also suggesting that unions are out to shut down companies rather than try and get fairness is disgracefull .
it's something i'll never be able to change my views on .
and once again i say . i wish these peoples faulty genes would disappear from the human race .

IT all stems from the fact that PEOPLE THINK those with unlimited wealth deserve it , and those going backwards deserve it .

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by BA GT-HO

Not really, I am a tradesman working in a factory. I don't understand the question? What benefits? I just get frustrated by bludgers that constantly do wrong and hide behind the union. I am frustrated by the way the union deals with EBA negotiations. Hearing a senior AMWU secretary saying 'We have shut 3 places down all ready over EBA negotiations and were not afraid to do it again' is to me very concerning.

All you staunch unionists need to go overseas particularly Asia and see how lucky you are here. But that doesn't matter does it? Your entitled to everything you can dream of aren't you.

Frustrated by bludgers & union representatives are you....why won't you speak up or is that too hard.....
Remember this there are more people out there who are unionists who do a fair days work for their money who are not bludgers.

OBTW when I was in my trade working at different company sites that were not represented by unions & believe me there is plenty of them around I was amazed how many workers were exploited.... if you think this B.S. then you live in a dream world.

[BHDOGS]

An interesting debate give up some perks, maybe have a job out of it but probably not and lose it anyway like holden did to screw poeple which sets a bad precedent for the industry or hold out and not change and lose it anyway i know which road id take.

[cheap]

Originally Posted by Bill M

Don't start with the globalisation talk to justify your opinion and your version of the facts. Some of us were in this at the beginning.
If you had the ability to comprehend my post you would realise I am not a union man nor a management basher, just call it as I have seen it over the past 36 years from both on the tools and a management perspective.

Again so you can understand, unions need to evolve in order to safeguard the very people they represent. This is called workplace flexibility

Leaving all the calls to management and they will try to get away with anything they can so some safeguards are required that both parties can agree to in a mature fashion. Other countries do it and to peddle the line that it is not possible is a nonsense.

My friend this is impossible to ignore Globalisation.

The freeing up of capital, opening up trade, reduced tariffs, throw in advances to manufacturing technology, fast cheap reliable transport, virtual workforces, access to cheap labour, business friendly overseas governments, zero or very relaxed environmental regulations, small V's large local markets. The list goes on and on.

And if that wasn't enough, the icing on the cake.

1) pig-headedness of militant unions to arrogantly mandate to business the terms by which business shall operate.

2) the previous genius federal government adding a few extra anti-business taxes.

"Unions evolving..." I must have missed the part where the union's are bending over backwards at Totota? Only a fool can't not see the train wreck awaiting the Toyota workforce.

Business is business I learnt that along time ago. If you stand in the way of business, it will find a way around you.