How do you rate the GT-F vs GTS?

[futura]

Originally Posted by chopstar87

If the SRT8 beats the GTF, would you concede that the SRT8 is superior?

At the Moment how it stands

Features: SRT8 wins
Price vs GTF: SRT8 Wins
Performance vs GTF: to be confirmed

If I was not buying a GTF, the Holden HSV GTS would be my next best choice, followed by a distant 3rd place for the SRT8. Take away all the features of the SRT8, what are you left with?

[2242100]

Originally Posted by Hulsty

Its a laugh everyone thinking the GTF is more powerful, if it was more powerful and and IS lighter than a GTS, why isnt it faster?


GTS is heaver and FASTER, to 100 and quarter mile with higher trap speed, if the GTF was more powerful this would reflect in the trap speed.

Cant beat physics, GTS is still more powerful.

I think most agree that the HSV has the highest average power across the rev range.

[rancidpunx]

Originally Posted by Rodge

And that rancidpunx , along with fitment of mediocre rubber and shocks is probably why Motor magazine's independent testing didn't show the R Spec in as favourable light as you'd might expect...or are you saying they're biased too ?

Im only pulling your leg bud I would still like to see more than one magazines take on things. Tyres are good up to about 8000ks now ***** and suspension although I was sceptical is a step up from the GT but its a good package which will surprise most. Agreed though its old tech. The goal posts move for every review. The same review if I remember correctly said the VE R8 had a great chassis and the GT was horrid. Now we have reviews saying the GTS chassis is not as good as the same one we find on the GTF. Its all urinal talk anyway as most will never see the track. I have a 4.4s sprint to 100kph and a 12.3 qtr for car, my friends know what they have to beat for bragging rights lol and all still mates when its done.

[Sorted]

Originally Posted by Hulsty

Its a laugh everyone thinking the GTF is more powerful, if it was more powerful and and IS lighter than a GTS, why isnt it faster?


GTS is heaver and FASTER, to 100 and quarter mile with higher trap speed, if the GTF was more powerful this would reflect in the trap speed.

Cant beat physics, GTS is still more powerful.

Simple - RWKW wins Dyno Comps - Torque wins Races

[Rodge]

Originally Posted by futura

Just for the record Rodger, What are the N.Z Autocar times for the GTF?

Sept issue is out this Friday and includes a full evaluation of GT-F 001, (auto).
Good, bad or otherwise I'll post the 0-100 and 80-120 as soon as I have a copy.

Originally Posted by SensationFG8

Thing is, over-boost is only good for 100% of the time that the conditions are fine for it.Sure on a 40 degree day I think we can all agree the over-boost will be rubbish. On a nice 20 degree day I cant think of too many reasons it wouldn't be happy for a lot longer if you were circulating a track at high speed.

Temperature too high, ECU will pull back boost and ignition timing to try and maintain normal operating temperature.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Rodge

Sept issue is out this Friday and includes a full evaluation of GT-F 001, (auto).
Good, bad or otherwise I'll post the 0-100 and 80-120 as soon as I have a copy.


Temperature too high, ECU will pull back boost and ignition timing to try and maintain normal operating temperature.

Cant see that being a problem in NZ!

[Rodge]

Originally Posted by rancidpunx

Im only pulling your leg bud I would still like to see more than one magazines take on things. Tyres are good up to about 8000ks now ***** and suspension although I was sceptical is a step up from the GT but its a good package which will surprise most. Agreed though its old tech. The goal posts move for every review. The same review if I remember correctly said the VE R8 had a great chassis and the GT was horrid. Now we have reviews saying the GTS chassis is not as good as the same one we find on the GTF. Its all urinal talk anyway as most will never see the track. I have a 4.4s sprint to 100kph and a 12.3 qtr for car, my friends know what they have to beat for bragging rights lol and all still mates when its done.

All good mate and yeah I wouldn't mind seeing some more track comparisons either but It'll probably come as a relief to some that I'm more than a bit over this ****ing contest and looking forward to evaluating the SC and intercooled Roush Mustang in due course Aust manufacturing industry is a walking corpse and I'm more than a little interested in moving on too the next phase, (couldn't be bothered waiting till late 2015 hence the recent change).

[futura]

By the way Rodge, GTF build number 001 is a manual not an auto. What is the best times achieved for a manual VF GTS by N.Z Autocar??

I think EVO magazine has covered the manual vs manual battle, we need auto vs auto review by N.Z Autocar!!

[Rodge]

Originally Posted by kypez

Cant see that being a problem in NZ!

When they launched the SC range here with 12 SC vehicles at Hampton Downs racetrack Johnny Macintyre was doing hot laps at the end of the day for invited guests.

He did two hot laps with 3 guests and one cool down lap and then changed cars and guests over and over again...you join the dots...

I think you'd be lucky if full over-boost lasted anywhere near one hot lap on there.

[Rodge]

Originally Posted by futura

By the way Rodge, GTF build number 001 is a manual not an auto. What is the best times achieved for a manual VF GTS by N.Z Autocar??

I think EVO magazine has covered the manual vs manual battle, we need auto vs auto review by N.Z Autocar!!

N.Z. has their own unique numbers. My contact at Ford N.Z. has told me GT-F 001 is a white auto, (the one that's been evaluated by N.Z. Auitocar).
Obviously that info is only as reliable as his information so I'm happy to acknowledge he could be wrong and you may be right

To the best of my knowledge they haven't tested a GTS manual.

[futura]

Originally Posted by Rodge

When they launched the SC range here with 12 SC vehicles at Hampton Downs racetrack Johnny Macintyre was doing hot laps at the end of the day for invited guests.

He did two hot laps with 3 guests and one cool down lap and then changed cars and guests over and over again...you join the dots...

I think you'd be lucky if full over-boost lasted anywhere near one hot lap on there.

sorry Rodge, never been good at joining dots..

can you please fill us in

[futura]

Originally Posted by Rodge

N.Z. has their own unique numbers. My contact at Ford N.Z. has told me GT-F 001 is a white auto, (the one that's been evaluated by N.Z. Auitocar).
Obviously that info is only as reliable as his information so I'm happy to acknowledge he could be wrong and you may be right

To the best of my knowledge they haven't tested a GTS manual.

Your right. Looks like they are testing GTF NZ01 not GTF001. That would of meant that Aussie GTF-001 manual would of made the trip to New Zealand and back again in time for the Ebay Auction.

[Rodge]

Originally Posted by futura

sorry Rodge, never been good at joining dots..

can you please fill us in

Okay here's another dot to make it easy.
After Johnny Mac's two hot laps in each SC car and a cool down lap each car he used was left with the bonnet up, engine going and the sound from the cooling fans racing at maximum attack for 10-15 minutes was bloody impressive...do people seriously think over-boost is still operational in these conditions.

[XBGTFGGTP]

Originally Posted by Rodge

Sounds like good fun to me

Absolutely, Pukekohe or Hampton Downs.

[XBGTFGGTP]

Originally Posted by Rodge

I don't pretend to be a professional driver so you can't say conclusively which is quicker as driver skill would clearly be a factor but I'm more than happy to have a friendly blast for a few laps around Hampton Downs if Hemi's keen.

Thing is, over-boost is only good for 20 seconds, so while much is made of the peak power of the GT-F in ideal over-boost conditions for a short time, what about the loss of 15% over-boost for the other few minutes of a few hot laps ?

And that rancidpunx , along with fitment of mediocre rubber and shocks is probably why Motor magazine's independent testing didn't show the R Spec in as favourable light as you'd might expect...or are you saying they're biased too ?

I suppose N.Z. Autocar with their 0-100 of 4.13 seconds and 80-120 of 2.29 seconds with a GTS auto, (quicker than their own testing on a BMW M5 and Mercedes-Benz E63S), they're also biased right ?

And Hemi, there's lots of good cars out there of which I admire the engineering effort that's gone into them, BMW M5, Mercedes-Benz CLS63, Audi RS7 and Jaguar F Type 5.0R to name a few. The Mrs and I are very happy with our current vehicles but thanks for the GTS suggestion, I'll keep it in mind Here's a thought, this is a GT-F v GTS thread so there's always going to be two opposing opinions...

I'm more than keen to have a blast Rodge as the overpriced R-Spec with standard seats will need a workout. Might be able to see how long the over boost function lasts for and we might be able to put to bed the R-Spec vs SRT Modern Motor comparison that frequently arises in these threads.

[Rodge]

Pretty sure Hampton Downs still have those twilight play day's on track. Would be heaps of fun. There might even be a GTS on the track I'm keen !!
I actually tried to organise a Hampton Downs playday on track event with the NZFF guys but none of those pussies wanted to track their cars, too precious about them, go figure.

[responsef6]

Originally Posted by Rodge

I don't pretend to be a professional driver so you can't say conclusively which is quicker as driver skill would clearly be a factor but I'm more than happy to have a friendly blast for a few laps around Hampton Downs if Hemi's keen.

Thing is, over-boost is only good for 20 seconds, so while much is made of the peak power of the GT-F in ideal over-boost conditions for a short time, what about the loss of 15% over-boost for the other few minutes of a few hot laps ?

And that rancidpunx , along with fitment of mediocre rubber and shocks is probably why Motor magazine's independent testing didn't show the R Spec in as favourable light as you'd might expect...or are you saying they're biased too ?

I suppose N.Z. Autocar with their 0-100 of 4.13 seconds and 80-120 of 2.29 seconds with a GTS auto, (quicker than their own testing on a BMW M5 and Mercedes-Benz E63S), they're also biased right ?

And Hemi, there's lots of good cars out there of which I admire the engineering effort that's gone into them, BMW M5, Mercedes-Benz CLS63, Audi RS7 and Jaguar F Type 5.0R to name a few. The Mrs and I are very happy with our current vehicles but thanks for the GTS suggestion, I'll keep it in mind Here's a thought, this is a GT-F v GTS thread so there's always going to be two opposing opinions...

Please can you quote the nz autocar time again for me, I don't think I quite got it the first 20 times you posted it.

Mate you are a broken record repeating the same "gts is best, gtf is less" mantra over and over and over.

This is a forum, you're welcome to your opinion, but you constantly twist facts about over boost in the gtf to support your reoccurring message.

Ford said at launch you get full power unlimited in most occasions, except in hot temps where you still get full 400+ power for 20 seconds at a time.

They never said when the engine gets hot at a racetrack it will go into low power 351 mode after a few hot laps (which is what youre saying). Ford referred to very hot ambient temps (such as 40 degrees) the gtf would reduce power but only after 20 seconds of full power, meaning full throttle/high revs(which is where full power is generated)

Tell me a racetrack when you apply full throttle for 20 seconds non stop, maybe only the 1km standing start airport runway comps.

If over boost was as wishy washy as you make it out to be, the gtf wouldnt have consistently spanked the gts again and again over multiple runs on 3 separate dyno tests with wheels and motoring.com

Have a bit more balance

I personally hammered my gtf for 2 hours the other day on back country roads, mostly at full throttle (except during braking/cornering obviously) and I had no let up of power at all (did drain the tank badly though)

I can assure you all from someone who actually owns and drives their gtf hard, that racetrack laps will not see this car lose boost, unless of course it's also on a super hot day

[chopstar87]

Originally Posted by futura

If I was not buying a GTF, the Holden HSV GTS would be my next best choice, followed by a distant 3rd place for the SRT8. Take away all the features of the SRT8, what are you left with?

Take away the 351kw V8 from the GTF, what to do you have??? an XT Falcon with a fully sick body kit..

Take away the features from the SRT8, you still have the 347kw 6.4l Hemi. the SRT8, doesn't just have a good engine, or good features, its a complete package.. compared to the GTF.

THE GTF, is a great falcon and will probably go down as the quickest Australian ford built.. but times are changing.. the mustangs arrive soon and I think it will give the GTF and GTS a touch up around a race track... hopefully chargers, challengers and Camaros are to follow soon after the Mustang GT, hopefully they can get a next gen Hellcat from factory in RHD, in about 2018-2020 and that's is what I will be replacing my 300 with.

[futura]

Originally Posted by Rodge

Okay here's another dot to make it easy.
After Johnny Mac's two hot laps in each SC car and a cool down lap each car he used was left with the bonnet up, engine going and the sound from the cooling fans racing at maximum attack for 10-15 minutes was bloody impressive...do people seriously think over-boost is still operational in these conditions.

But isn't that standard procedure for production cars raced around tracks? we are talking about street cars not race cars?

My previous company bosses C63 6.3 litre would be lucky to get two laps around eastern creek without limp mode for overheating transmission.

[Rodge]

responsef6 - Big difference between a blast at semi legal speeds on a back country road and track temps at maximum possible speed....but what does it matter nobody takes their car to the track right ?

Cars get a cool down period between dyno pulls and how long does each dyno run take, well and truly under 20 seconds.

What Ford said was the car would always make a minimum of 351 Kw's regardless of conditions, please cut and paste the rest of what they said from their press release as I think your recollection isn't an accurate one.

It was a hot day, (for N.Z) at Hampton Downs and yes futura that is standard practice but a line up of several SC FPV's all with their cooling fans at maximum attack was truly something to behold. They get extremely hot.
The only F6 they had there for comparative purposes boiled its coolant, (I wasn't surprised).

[futura]

Originally Posted by chopstar87

Take away the 351kw V8 from the GTF, what to do you have??? an XT Falcon with a fully sick body kit..

Take away the features from the SRT8, you still have the 347kw 6.4l Hemi. the SRT8, doesn't just have a good engine, or good features, its a complete package.. compared to the GTF.

THE GTF, is a great falcon and will probably go down as the quickest Australian ford built.. but times are changing.. the mustangs arrive soon and I think it will give the GTF and GTS a touch up around a race track... hopefully chargers, challengers and Camaros are to follow soon after the Mustang GT, hopefully they can get a next gen Hellcat from factory in RHD, in about 2018-2020 and that's is what I will be replacing my 300 with.

How many forward gears has the SRT8 have again??

[SensationFG8]

Originally Posted by chopstar87

Take away the 351kw V8 from the GTF, what to do you have??? an XT Falcon with a fully sick body kit..

Take away the features from the SRT8, you still have the 347kw 6.4l Hemi. the SRT8, doesn't just have a good engine, or good features, its a complete package.. compared to the GTF.

So what you're saying here is

1. Take away the major part of the car (the v8) and what are you left with?
2. Take away minor parts of the car (the gimmicks) and what are you left with?

Seems an odd thing to try to do... But if that's how you need to justify your purchase so be it.

[Rodge]

Originally Posted by chopstar87

Take away the 351kw V8 from the GTF, what to do you have??? an XT Falcon with a fully sick body kit..

Take away the features from the SRT8, you still have the 347kw 6.4l Hemi. the SRT8, doesn't just have a good engine, or good features, its a complete package.. compared to the GTF.

THE GTF, is a great falcon and will probably go down as the quickest Australian ford built.. but times are changing.. the mustangs arrive soon and I think it will give the GTF and GTS a touch up around a race track... hopefully chargers, challengers and Camaros are to follow soon after the Mustang GT, hopefully they can get a next gen Hellcat from factory in RHD, in about 2018-2020 and that's is what I will be replacing my 300 with.

Bring it on I say. I can't wait, (didn't), for some tasty new American muscle.

[futura]

Lets all get back on the topic here guys...

we might have to start a separate thread..

[Rodge]

Originally Posted by futura

How many forward gears has the SRT8 have again??

In the real world cylinder deactivation is far more effective at saving fuel on cruise than the overdriven sixth gear in the SC FPV which largely makes this argument irrelevant and the wide spread of torque in the Hemi closes down any further arguments on this old chestnut IMHO....of course what would I know having owned both...what's the official torque rating on that ZF box ?

[futura]

Originally Posted by Rodge

In the real world cylinder deactivation is far more effective at saving fuel on cruise than the overdriven sixth gear in the SC FPV which largely makes this argument irrelevant and the wide spread of torque in the Hemi closes down any further arguments on this old chestnut IMHO....of course what would I know having owned both...what's the official torque rating on that ZF box ?

You still have not answered the question??

How many forward gears? As an account surely you deal with numbers?

[LoudPipes]

Originally Posted by futura

How many forward gears has the SRT8 have again??

Enough to make it go off like a bag of wild bush cats.

When buying a V8 or any performance car, who rates fuel economy as a high priority anyway?

[futura]

Originally Posted by Rodge

In the real world cylinder deactivation is far more effective at saving fuel on cruise than the overdriven sixth gear in the SC FPV which largely makes this argument irrelevant and the wide spread of torque in the Hemi closes down any further arguments on this old chestnut IMHO....of course what would I know having owned both...what's the official torque rating on that ZF box ?

If Cylinder deactivation is far more effective at saving fuel, then why are manufactures making 7 and 8 speed gearboxes

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by Rodge

Okay here's another dot to make it easy.
After Johnny Mac's two hot laps in each SC car and a cool down lap each car he used was left with the bonnet up, engine going and the sound from the cooling fans racing at maximum attack for 10-15 minutes was bloody impressive...do people seriously think over-boost is still operational in these conditions.

Based on the end of your comment rodge, I'm positive you don't actually understand what and how transient overboost works. So I'm guessing you just simply DONT rate the GTF at all....otherwise you wouldn't be making such silly comments.
You may even trigger a brain cell into action with the big hint with all the recent dyno tests failing to heat soak the GTF. And THEY TRIED. THAT deserves respect.
It's Almost as if you think ford is the only brand that modulates adrs, fuel mixtures and so on depending on climate conditions. It's painful.

Oh and I'd be interested in how an srt8 goes hammered around a track for half a dozen laps.........

[fgpsi]

Who gives a stuff about the SRT Barge *** pos