drive.com.au at it again! - Page 5

xr8man83 · 14-09-2006, 10:09 AM

wow i have read some crap in my time but that just takes the cake. That was the most biast write up i ever have read it sounds like they are employees of holden itself and was that the on road cost of the ss?? my mate at work is just bout to buy a bf xr8 and it was 51 grand on road nearly optioned out. i like how they forgot to put in there how dust leaks into the holden cab like the omega does. and what are the actual fuel economy ratings i bet the ss aint all that much better at all.

2kool4u · 14-09-2006, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FLYXR6

I still to this day do not understand why people who adore holdens so much spend so much time in a ford website....... and then get upset when a holden biased article is flamed on said website.

Maybe because some of us are just car enthuiasts, not one-eyed ford fans. On this forum, if you point out one problem with a falcon, your told that your a ****er and you need to go back to LS1.com.au, same thing if you defend another brand of car.

-------------

If the article was completely biased towards ford you guys would be praising Drive, and laughing your tits off at holden.

Why not just laugh at the ******* from drive, you all know they have absolutely no idea what they're talking about, theres really no need to waste your time slinging **** at holden and accusing them of bribing people.

2kool4u · 14-09-2006, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bucket

Ding Ding Ding, we have a winner..

If some of you even bother to read my post...this entire thread can be summed up in one short sentence...

We're not unhappy about the result...it was expected. We're unhappy about the way the results were concluded and I'm sure the Holden Crew would agree if it happened to them.

Boss V8 < LS 6.0
Barra I6 > Alloytech V6

thats the smartest thing I've read in this entire thread, well said man.

Uni · 14-09-2006, 11:53 AM

The article wasn't as bad as you lot make it out to be. the reasons that the journos gave were, admittedly, a little off, but i think its high time people just accept the fact that Holden has actually built a decent car which, hands down, beats the Falcon.

OK, so the journos have some trouble avoiding large clods of dirt and so on, but lets be realistic here... Most of you are just annoyed that Holden has actually built a decent bloody car, because it means you need to get off your nice comfy "the BA is the bestest" high-horse.

For those of you who think the article did not give adequate or due consideration to the Falcon, i would remind you that the article did in fact give the falcon a great deal of page space, the vast majority of which made valid points with regards to steering and suspension tune, and presented information which was most certainly relevant in terms of comparing it against a car which the testers obviously felt was superior. You can't expect them to excessively praise a car they do not feel is the best.

i can predict the response most of you will have to this post... I will no doubt be accused of being a dirty Holden troll etc etc. I can't stop you, so please, go ahead. I've always been a Ford man, always will be. However, complaining about an article which, while not the greatest, does raise some valid points, and ultimately comes to the right conclusion, is frankly a waste of your time.

Uni/.

Fordoldie · 14-09-2006, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uni

The article wasn't as bad as you lot make it out to be. the reasons that the journos gave were, admittedly, a little off, but i think its high time people just accept the fact that Holden has actually built a decent car which, hands down, beats the Falcon.

OK, so the journos have some trouble avoiding large clods of dirt and so on, but lets be realistic here... Most of you are just annoyed that Holden has actually built a decent bloody car, because it means you need to get off your nice comfy "the BA is the bestest" high-horse.

For those of you who think the article did not give adequate or due consideration to the Falcon, i ask you this: Why would a journalist waste page space on a car which has been around for several years now, when his/her audience already knows a great deal about it? The VE is the newcomer, and people would much rather read about it than read drivvel about the more dated falcon.

i can predict the response most of you will have to this post... I will no doubt be accused of being a dirty Holden troll etc etc. I can't stop you, so please, go ahead. I've always been a Ford man, always will be. However, complaining about an article which, while not the greatest, does raise some valid points, and ultimately comes to the right conclusion, is frankly a waste of your time.
Uni/.

No 2kool4u, this may be the smartest thing you have read

Uni · 14-09-2006, 12:13 PM

see my post for an edit.... re-reading the article helps ;)

Uni/.

merlin · 14-09-2006, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uni

but i think its high time people just accept the fact that Holden has actually built a decent car which, hands down, beats the Falcon.
.

Got to disagree with you there. I think the VE V8 models are better than the Falcon by a long shot but if we are talking 6 cyl models the Ford is the winner by a good margin.

4Vman · 14-09-2006, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by merlin

Got to disagree with you there. I think the VE V8 models are better than the Falcon by a long shot but if we are talking 6 cyl models the Ford is the winner by a good margin.

The general concensus im reading and hearing would suggest you're right...
Here's another way to look at things: what's the 6cyl to V8 sales split? i.e: 70% 6 cyl to 30% v8? It might give you all a different OVERALL perspective of BF v VE....

Ringo · 14-09-2006, 12:59 PM

That article is a joke....you can feel the bias in every comment and assesment made.

I like how they hit a "lump of clay" but it bent and busted stuff on the Xr6

Questions
How big was the "lump of clay" ?
How fast did you hit it ?
At what point does a lump of clay become a rock? Size? Density? or does it remain a 'lump of clay" forever to absolve the driver of blame for not seeing a 'big rock' and avoiding it?

What the did was akin to taking a lancruiser and a patrol to a race track and then saying that the strait line performance was dissapointing and the suspension allowed to much body roll.....dumb useless and not helpful to the reading public when choosing a vehicle.

"hmm I need a vehicle to drive on dirt roads in far western NSW...I'm thinking of buying an SS Commodore (or a peugoet diesel). That will do the job nicely"

It is truly amazing that the thought never occured to them that the 'fleet cars' they were in convoy with were all fine in the outback coping with "lumps of clay" and undulating roads yet the sports orientated vehicles suffered undercar damage......what does that tell you?....tells me if the excersise is to test performance cars in "harsh conditions" take them to a race track, not the outback.

Fordoldie · 14-09-2006, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

The general concensus im reading and hearing would suggest you're right...
Here's another way to look at things: what's the 6cyl to V8 sales split? i.e: 70% 6 cyl to 30% v8? It might give you all a different OVERALL perspective of BF v VE....

85% 6 cyl sales I'm told and it has grown of late. VE sales might get the V8 back up around 20% but I doubt it.

HSE2 · 14-09-2006, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uni

The article wasn't as bad as you lot make it out to be. the reasons that the journos gave were, admittedly, a little off, but i think its high time people just accept the fact that Holden has actually built a decent car which, hands down, beats the Falcon.
Uni/.

You have hit most of the nails squarely on the head. I have spent the best part of this week behind the wheel of a few VEs. They won’t beat the falcon hands down. To do that they need to be better in all areas and they aren't. There are aspects that are plain annoying to me some probably wont ever be reported in the press.

One example is the climate control. Buttons that are placed around the rotary dial are just too small and fiddly for my liking and no where near as easy to see or use as the BF. For a new car I am not sure what thinking was in play on this one. Maybe I must have abnormal sized hands but there are some ergonomics that make the falcon’s foils seem like Christmas. The V6 well don’t get me started. It’s really hard to image any serious person preferring this engine over the Barra. The Barra engine in the VE would be a sensational product especially if the ZF went with it.

However

We simply can’t take our source of information inconsistently. Drive said the XT and Fairmont (a real surprise) were competitive. We nodded accordingly so concurrently we can’t be completely dismissive of other reports from the same source just on spec. It is a terrible shame the details in this latest article leave a bit to be desired. The result of the XR6T probably the biggest question mark given the stated reasons, but we have known for some time the Xr8 was always going to be in trouble. You have to expect that when Ford has done nothing to address the criticisms leaved at it for nearly 4 years. I believe motor have stated the car to be irrelevant. If true that’s possible one of the biggest insults any publication can level at any car. That tells the consumer it not worth considering. Instead of being ****ed at the messengers why aren't people asking for a please explain from Ford given the lofty statements surrounding the release of the boss engine. Even in the dark AU days the XR8 took it share of victims due to its excellent handling. We don’t even have that to fall back on.
Ford deserve every bit of praise for the work in BA to BF and in particular the excellent turbo products. Many Ford enthusiasts themselves don’t understand the magnitude of work from AU to BA but I would like to know why sections of the media aren't asking the question of Ford concerning the V8s. The product is where it is at Fords hand and for no other reason. We can sugar coat it anyway we like and as poor as the reasoning was the results are going to be consistent. I am yet to read Motor but I believe the turbo did ok for flying the blue oval flag. There was a thread about it but that seems to have disappeared. Its time to put this one to bed and talk about the results that might have more concrete reasoning, but I suspect the results won't change much.

4Vman · 14-09-2006, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fordoldie

85% 6 cyl sales I'm told and it has grown of late. VE sales might get the V8 back up around 20% but I doubt it.

Well there you have it, so for 85% of all BF/VE sales the BF will hold its head high...
Also id suggest fuel prices may see it closer to 90%/10%...

Full Spectrum · 14-09-2006, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rushing on acid

if the v6 motor is the same as the vz v6 then its a piece of crap that holden found in the yarra river ( across the road from the engine factory). they are not smooth they are not quiet they have no power and they sound like a bloody taxi when they try and rev hard!

Here make your own mind up on it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jA8p...elated&search=

rushing on acid · 14-09-2006, 11:12 PM

if i wanted to see someone drive a ve down burwood hwy i'd go a get one off barloworld myself drive one.

Full Spectrum · 14-09-2006, 11:44 PM

Then why not go and drive one instead of bringing up dirt that you read?.

rushing on acid · 15-09-2006, 01:00 AM

i drive these **** heaps everyday and its not dirt that i read. i service plenty of the dunnydoors at work and they are all the same, they are mainly fleet cars and 95% of the drivers hate them, all they complain about is that they spend more time getting them fixed under warranty than driving the bloody things. i dont read crap like wheels and motor and drive.com.au because the journos are all a bunch of pathetic small ***** knob jockies these days. they dont know their heads from their asses and they wouldnt know what a good car was even if ran them over (wishfull thinking). i make my own judgement on cars when i have to work on them and to be off the topic by a bit dont bag the toyotas because they are by far more superior than holden and ford put together especially in quality.

ED Classic · 15-09-2006, 01:28 AM

Seems like they were in a hurry to pick the New Commode and write a story rather than evaluate the cars properly. Not saying the decision was right nor wrong it was just a simple simple summary of the test.

Outbackjack · 15-09-2006, 01:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rushing on acid

i drive these **** heaps everyday and its not dirt that i read. i service plenty of the dunnydoors at work and they are all the same, they are mainly fleet cars and 95% of the drivers hate them, all they complain about is that they spend more time getting them fixed under warranty than driving the bloody things. i dont read crap like wheels and motor and drive.com.au because the journos are all a bunch of pathetic small ***** knob jockies these days. they dont know their heads from their asses and they wouldnt know what a good car was even if ran them over (wishfull thinking). i make my own judgement on cars when i have to work on them and to be off the topic by a bit dont bag the toyotas because they are by far more superior than holden and ford put together especially in quality.

I can sort of back up what you are saying here, only from the fact that the last two companies that I worked for had a no commodore policy for company vehicles. Too much down time and driver whinging about shitty driveability. Sadly this kicked in just as the AU was released. Everyone had to drive the AU. But the only complaint about that model was the looks. They proved to be a far more reliable and driveable package.

Full Spectrum · 15-09-2006, 02:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rushing on acid

i drive these **** heaps everyday and its not dirt that i read. i service plenty of the dunnydoors at work and they are all the same, they are mainly fleet cars and 95% of the drivers hate them, all they complain about is that they spend more time getting them fixed under warranty than driving the bloody things. i dont read crap like wheels and motor and drive.com.au because the journos are all a bunch of pathetic small ***** knob jockies these days. they dont know their heads from their asses and they wouldnt know what a good car was even if ran them over (wishfull thinking). i make my own judgement on cars when i have to work on them and to be off the topic by a bit dont bag the toyotas because they are by far more superior than holden and ford put together especially in quality.

You once said that holden VT-VZ have a 4-5 second power delay, Being a mechanic you should know the reason to why it does it.

xr8man83 · 15-09-2006, 11:29 AM

they say that the new holden is a wider car then the falcon i cant see it in those photos man that holden is ugly

Bucket · 15-09-2006, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlickHolden

You once said that holden VT-VZ have a 4-5 second power delay, Being a mechanic you should know the reason to why it does it.

From My experience driving VYII's, that crap transimssion made the experience no where near as good as it could be..

Me: *Foot Down*

1...

Commodore: "******! he's just stomped my accelerator!!...what do I do???"

2...

Commodore: "Hmmm is it at 3500rpm??...no...5....uhhh...7000..Crap...NNNN My head hurts!!!!!"

3...

Commodore: "Hmmm.... which gear...."

4...

Commodore: "Got it!! ....eenie...meenie...miney..."

just a little something to lighten the mood

Fordoldie · 15-09-2006, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Well there you have it, so for 85% of all BF/VE sales the BF will hold its head high...
Also id suggest fuel prices may see it closer to 90%/10%...

Not sure if you are in the same lane here. I thought we were talking 6 cyl vs 8cyl sales figures? How does BF get to hold its head high?

Abacus · 15-09-2006, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlickHolden

Here make your own mind up on it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jA8p...elated&search=

Most boring clip ever.

Fordoldie · 15-09-2006, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abacus

Most boring clip ever.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Mind you they sound a hell of a lot better than before and having just driven one I found it very impressive and poles apart from VZ. Certainly up there in terms of quality drive and ample power

Uni · 15-09-2006, 07:04 PM

it makes a nice sound!

interior is very dark tho.. looks rather japanese IMO

Uni/.

Full Spectrum · 16-09-2006, 03:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bucket

From My experience driving VYII's, that crap transimssion made the experience no where near as good as it could be..

Me: *Foot Down*

1...

Commodore: "******! he's just stomped my accelerator!!...what do I do???"

2...

Commodore: "Hmmm is it at 3500rpm??...no...5....uhhh...7000..Crap...NNNN My head hurts!!!!!"

3...

Commodore: "Hmmm.... which gear...."

4...

Commodore: "Got it!! ....eenie...meenie...miney..."

just a little something to lighten the mood

Hey Mo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abacus

Most boring clip ever.

It was only a test drive from the dealers it wasn't meant to brake any road rules and have fun

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uni

it makes a nice sound!

interior is very dark tho.. looks rather japanese IMO

Uni/.

It's not bad at all, But i do guess only that some might not fall in love with it because it makes a slight V8 note and not more of a 6 note. And then i can understand how someone like i think it was GoAuto's comment of it not being one or the other quite sporty it's in the middle.

DOC · 16-09-2006, 03:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlickHolden

Here make your own mind up on it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jA8p...elated&search=

Being a public road probably didnt help as he was driving it pretty soft ( grandma style ) on a track it might go a bit better.

Bucket · 16-09-2006, 03:30 AM

This one got me laughin...i swore I was sitting at a Barn Dance or Gospel Church but no..it was a Holden Dealership

Video Here

And then this one of Rick Kelly Putting an SS-V through its Paces...watch the front arches when the weight is shifting and it's sideways (most of the time hehe) You'll see what I mean...

Video Here

**Professor Farnsworth** · 16-09-2006, 03:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bucket

This one got me laughin...i swore I was sitting at a Barn Dance or Gospel Church but no..it was a Holden Dealership

Video Here

And then this one of Rick Kelly Putting an SS-V through its Paces...watch the front arches when the weight is shifting and it's sideways (most of the time hehe) You'll see what I mean...

Video Here

second one is a dud link - you have two 'http's', then when you delete one, it produces the same VE video in the first link

4Vman · 16-09-2006, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fordoldie

Not sure if you are in the same lane here. I thought we were talking 6 cyl vs 8cyl sales figures? How does BF get to hold its head high?

: Stay with me here.... if 85% of car sales are 6cyl, and the BF 6cyl is on average a "better" vehicle than the VE what does that mean about BF v VE from an "overall" perspective?

No point judging the BF v VE purely on the 8's considering they only account for 15% of sales....