Do you brake with your RH or LH foot? (auto only)

[Full Spectrum]

Originally Posted by bob^

The only flaw with the point you bring up about a ruler above each hand is there is only one brake pedal, not two.
I'd say a reason it wouldn't be taught is you would have to adjust your driving style when using a manual, since you pretty much have to use your right foot to brake.

Me personally, I brake with the right. Using two feet means double the work, I don't drive an auto for nothing

I think some left foot brakes get a little heavy on the foot, And do hit the brake lights. But me personally it hasn't affected me driving a manual after a auto.
The only 2 manuals i have drove this year are a Laser 5 speed and a Truck.

Originally Posted by Matty4

XA Coupsta,
I'm with you 100% buddy.

I only ever brake with my right foot
My daily driver is a manual so I have no other option.
My wifes car is an auto and I find I can't modulate the pedal with enough accuracy to stop smoothly. There would be little, if any, difference in reaction time moving form the footrest to the brake pedal or moving from the accelerator to the brake pedal. Hovering over the brake pedal would be very tiring, especially on longer distance drives.

Someone questioned about what do us manual drivers brace against in an emergency stop......the clutch firmly planted to the floor!!!!

There is nothing more infuriating than following a car with their brake lights on for ages. Do those of you who do left foot brake and hover their foot continually check the position of the foot to ensure it hasn't gotten lazy and "relaxed" itself onto the pedal, therefore activating the brake lights (the original peev of the thread starter)?

Matty

It's not that tiering really i like to hover just off it but i move my foot to feel it's close. But never hit the peddle and set off the light i can see my parcel shelf light it's bright and can be seen very easy in the window driving. But my foot will rest on the freeway if traffic is good. But if there was say a roo run infront of me my right foot would brake if my left is on the rest no cruise. Never confusion between feet and never have i slammed the throttle when braking left foot.
To the guys that brake left foot and keep there foot on it and light there brake lights up you need to adjust your brake light switched or your foot.

[XA Coupsta]

So what if you are amidextrous?! The relevance is?

Reviewing this thread *most* left foot brakers are alternating and sometimes use the right foot at times.

Whether or not you can use both feet isnt the issue at hand. The issue is by using them alternately - you've created an extra 'step' in the process it takes to respond to stimuli. Its proven mate. Slice and dice it anyway you like.

As for your other comments. No - driving a manual - the foot returns to the rest or floor. Who the hell keeps their foot hovered over the clutch? Man you wouldnt get your licence if you did that in your driving test. *Edit* You might be able to keep it on the clutch for the 1st to 2nd gear change. Every one after that though and the foot must return to the rest/floor.

Not to mention the amount of throwout bearings you are going to wear out by hovering on the clutch.

The driving along thing and hitting the brakes - yeh that is done - its an emergency stop in your driving exam. To complete that section of the test successfully - its not just getting your boot on the brake - its ALSO not having it one on the accelerator, nor stalling. Left foot on clutch, right foot on brake - NO foot anywhere near your accelerator.

[Scott]

Coupsta, how much longer do you think it takes the brain to work it out?

[XA Coupsta]

Originally Posted by GMH8TR

Coupsta, how much longer do you think it takes the brain to work it out?

Alright I'll play.

Longer than what it does to not have to work it out? :

Part of my previous responses I also believe (personal opinion) you run the risk in an emergency situation of stomping on the accelerator - instead of the brake - when you alternate feet.

[Scott]

Ok, but how long?

[XA Coupsta]

ps - one of the 'strengths' of the left foot brake argument has been how it is quicker to react.

I can sense an admittance to the reaction taking longer now, but it will be only minimal therefore discarded as ok......

*no doubt out on a limb and about to be proven wrong......or right?*

[XA Coupsta]

Originally Posted by GMH8TR

Ok, but how long?

I sense the bait.

Why dont you tell me?

[Scott]

Not an admittance, because I believe left foot is quicker.

It seems you won't commit to an estimate but for the sake of this 158 post thread, I would like to apply some maths to the discussion and then query why you are so passionate about changing people's driving styles for reasons which you (and no-one else) can substantiate.

On the assumption that you (would) estimate it takes another tenth of a second for your brain to decide, then this whole thread is about 1.6m of stopping distance (at 60k's) which would be very quickly thrown out the window by:

A: Tyre choice;
B: Tyre wear;
C: Tyre inflation;
D: Brake choice;
E: Brake wear;
F: Suspension choice;
G: Suspension wear;
H: Road surface type;
I: Road temp;
J: Weather;
K: How long it took to decide the brakes were needed;
L: How much the car normally weighs;
M: How much the car weighs the day it needs to be pulled up;
N: How fast the object was moving away;
O: Whether the car was travelling up a hill;
P: Whether the car was travelling down a hill;

There are so many different factors, left or right foot contribute far, far less than any of the afore mentioned.

You will have to learn to cope with the fact that your way is not the only way.

[Full Spectrum]

Originally Posted by XA Coupsta

So what if you are amidextrous?! The relevance is?

Reviewing this thread *most* left foot brakers are alternating and sometimes use the right foot at times.

Whether or not you can use both feet isnt the issue at hand. The issue is by using them alternately - you've created an extra 'step' in the process it takes to respond to stimuli. Its proven mate. Slice and dice it anyway you like.

As for your other comments. No - driving a manual - the foot returns to the rest or floor. Who the hell keeps their foot hovered over the clutch? Man you wouldnt get your licence if you did that in your driving test. *Edit* You might be able to keep it on the clutch for the 1st to 2nd gear change. Every one after that though and the foot must return to the rest/floor.

Not to mention the amount of throwout bearings you are going to wear out by hovering on the clutch.

The driving along thing and hitting the brakes - yeh that is done - its an emergency stop in your driving exam. To complete that section of the test successfully - its not just getting your boot on the brake - its ALSO not having it one on the accelerator, nor stalling. Left foot on clutch, right foot on brake - NO foot anywhere near your accelerator.

You got the ones that brake left right as they please on and off. You got the ones that brake left foot 99.99% of the time. Me. Can't remember the last time i used my right foot to brake in a auto. My neighbour tells me it's dangerous to brake left foot, But didn't know i did it till i told him.
No confusion no problem, If the brain can't deal with using the other side then women are right. Men cant do 2 things at once.
I think you just need to drive with someone that does it all the time, Not the person that just tried it and can't work it out or the one that goes back and forward,

If your in heavy traffic and driving a manual consider this, not all of them have foot rest and not everyone can change all gears and take there foot of the rest and back and forward in traffic. And do you seriously think that someone will do there clutch because they are waiting above the clutch to change gears. Not all cars out there are big V8's that can drive in 2nd to 140kp/h, And not all clutches engage when you step on them, My brothers 5 speed EF was right at the bottom of the floor and very tight race clutch. Took some time to get used to it as you could stall the car, But made good for fast changes as he wanted. You learn to live with that like left foot braking.

[LTDHO]

How do you brake quicker when the foot rest is further from the brake pedal than the accelerator?

[Full Spectrum]

Originally Posted by LTDHO

How do you brake quicker when the foot rest is further from the brake pedal than the accelerator?

Because it's not on the foot rest. It doesn't move to the brake it's there.

[Scott]

Originally Posted by LTDHO

How do you brake quicker when the foot rest is further from the brake pedal than the accelerator?

When in an auto, my left only finds the footrest on the highway.

[Full Spectrum]

I'm the same but lately i have been more cautious as drivers of today are a little more unpredictable.

[XA Coupsta]

Originally Posted by GMH8TR

Not an admittance, because I believe left foot is quicker.

It seems you won't commit to an estimate but for the sake of this 158 post thread, I would like to apply some maths to the discussion and then query why you are so passionate about changing people's driving styles for reasons which you (and no-one else) can substantiate.

On the assumption that you (would) estimate it takes another tenth of a second for your brain to decide, then this whole thread is about 1.6m of stopping distance (at 60k's) which would be very quickly thrown out the window by:

A: Tyre choice;
B: Tyre wear;
C: Tyre inflation;
D: Brake choice;
E: Brake wear;
F: Suspension choice;
G: Suspension wear;
H: Road surface type;
I: Road temp;
J: Weather;
K: How long it took to decide the brakes were needed;
L: How much the car normally weighs;
M: How much the car weighs the day it needs to be pulled up;
N: How fast the object was moving away;
O: Whether the car was travelling up a hill;
P: Whether the car was travelling down a hill;

There are so many different factors, left or right foot contribute far, far less than any of the afore mentioned.

You will have to learn to cope with the fact that your way is not the only way.

Ahhhh - passionate debate. I love it.

At the end of the day - that is an admittance. You now claim 'oh 1.6metres is nothing'. Cmon. Is it going to save reaction or isnt it? And if it isnt - game over on the reaction time point!!! Dont try and dilute it by saying the negative outcome is acceptable.

Add that 1.6m to your other very valid points of tyres, etc, etc - lets remember these will sum together for an overall figure - not independently. Therefore you are already 1.6metres into something bad happening - then ADD your other factors onto that. Surely if you can save that 1.6metres to begin with your chances of recovery are vastly improved - not slightly - as you claim. Your head might be 10m away from the rear end of that flat bed truck as you hit the anchors.........deduct all those other detrimental factors you mentioned - I sure would want that spare 1.6m.........

We could further digress and then discuss if your braking distance is infact 1.6m worse - well then you have carried more speed through the varying stages of emergency stopping - therefore infact amplifying the possible consequences of the points you mentioned (eg tyres, uphill, downhill, etc). But nah that will get hard.

And yeh im aware you will then say, well if I have the best brakes, the best tyres, the best road conditions - I'll actually save more in reaction distance so it wont matter. So again basically its an admittance to reaction time being worse - but you are lucky your car's components will save the day coz your technique wont be.

Check the poll. Whilst I am certainly the most vocal (damn this argumentative streak I possess) - I am in the majority in terms of which technique is more used and supported.

No - I am not about to estimate a reaction time. That is oversimplifying this 158 odd post thread and doesnt do it justice at all.

There has been numerous other factors queried for left foot braking. To name a few:
1. Reaction time (of which I dont think any of us are really qualified to know the exact numerical answer - but can argue it is better or worse - you agree with the argument that it is worse however 1.6m is ok??)
2. The 'bracing' of the body - how can this effectively be done if you are using your left foot to brake. This then affects how well you brake in a high speed situation - unable to pulse or alter pressure on the brake as you are not braced properly. Therefore braking performance is actually poorer - not better - than is being claimed
3. The real possibility of employing both feet in an emergency situation (hey I am certainly not the only one who's mentioned this)
4. Additional wear on componentry via left foot activation (even if only slight) of brakes and throttle together

Now apparently there are plenty of driving courses or instructors (Ian Luff's name has been offered regularly) that say left foot braking is the go. Ive asked before what are their reasonings and heard nothing. And I would still ask - why isnt it being taught NOW in driving schools??

We are all car enthusiasts. Hell thats why I like it around here. Now surely all of us (being car enthusiasts) would like to think we are pretty damn good drivers. How can we think we are so damn hot - if we employ poor technique (and allow a 1.6m margin for error as acceptable?). Im also a golfer - look at Tiger Woods. He would have to have close to the most perfect technique ever seen in a golfer. Hence he is the best in the world and will be the best golfer history has seen. He's the best because he has the best technique. If we want to be the best drivers (or claim to be) we too have to employ the best technique.

Im very willing to understand why the left foot technique may be superior. And hey its possibly undefinable anyway and this thread will keep on the merry go round. At this stage there are the poll results, and plenty of facts about right foot braking being the most correct way to brake across all aspects of driving.

Slickholden - mate you wanna check some of your previous posts here. The ones Ive read you've said that you do alternate feet and use both. Also - your clutch doesnt have to be engaged for you to start wearing on your throwout bearing.

[Laminge]

you scare me xa coupsta, but the results of the poll would be as reliable as a zip tie on a cut spring...

I do enjoy reading your posts though but I fear that zip tie breaking at any time.

Experience is a key here.

[XA Coupsta]

Thanks Laminge. I think?!

Ok im getting scared at your zip tie references though.

[Scott]

Coupsta, you doubted reaction time, not me.

I still believe left foot braking is quicker than right. Your lacking estimate on the extra time and your fluff and bubble to avoid it whilst you talk it up soooo much demonstrates you are clutching at straws on that one. As for hittting the throttle, I can only speak from experience where in the 3 accidents I have had, my right foot has squashed my left foot on the brake pedal - obviously I have a pretty good comprehension of which foot moved first and can honestly say neither were on the gas! Perhaps someone with little awareness or who only drives 20k's a year might hit the gas..... who knows!.... do you? Maybe that same person doesn't even hit the brakes?

A 2 second google search brings forward your whole refernce point, perhaps some more real experience's (from everyone) would support your view or even mine.

I don't think right foot is wrong, as I have stated I use it on the highway. I do use left foot in town - most predominantly in heavy traffic.

And yes, why try to undo people's "natural" driving style when there are so many other things to fix with a whole lot less risk? Unless you have the best tyres, best brakes, best suspension and best reaction time, don't bother arguing over a poofteenth red herring.

[Silver Ghia]

I have the book "Drive to Survive" by Frank Gardner, which I periodically re-read to refresh myself on self preservation techniques. This is an excellent book, although being published in 1984, someone should update it to cover modern items such as ABS brakes and roundabouts.

On page 28 he says he's totally opposed to left foot braking in automatic cars, as you can't brace yourself to hold yourself back in the seat to modulate the braking pressure to avoid wheel lockup. Now I admit this reason is possibly to some extent no longer valid with the introduction of ABS brakes.
However he also adds that if then driving a manual car, and you are faced with a double take on which foot to use, you could be another 5 - 10 meters further into the problem before you actually start braking.

Add to the fact that not all automatics have ABS brakes, I would think that right foot braking rules.

However I can see there is some benefit in training my left foot to be over the brake pedal in a 'potential danger' situation ready to react (even though its awkward with my knee against that steering column). There would be no confusion as my right foot would also come across onto the brake pedal as per current practice, but probably a fraction of a second later.

But for normal braking I will continue to use my right foot as I can control it better.

[chevypower]

i still disagree, i heard all that when i first learnt to drive too, but i alternate manual and automatic cars all the time, and sometimes do left foot braking, and sometimes right foot, i think people should do whatever they are comfortable with and not be dictated by other peoples theories - what works for some people doesnt necessarily apply to everyone - maybe Mythbusters should do a story on it...

[Full Spectrum]

Originally Posted by XA Coupsta

Slickholden - mate you wanna check some of your previous posts here. The ones Ive read you've said that you do alternate feet and use both. Also - your clutch doesnt have to be engaged for you to start wearing on your throwout bearing.

I said i alternate on the freeway, But if you don't brake then you don't use your right foot to brake. And there for if traffic is building up it's left all the way. Like i said i can't remember the last time i used my right foot to brake. I spend over 90% of the time driving local and when i hit the freeways if traffic is heavier i wont even rest my foot it stay around the brake. Don't take risks anymore.
I might even get out of the car sore in my right leg more then my left if i have been in the car longer then 1 hour.

[EF302]

even if it is quicker, ur not moving ur foot away from the throttle. and if u rear end someone where's your foot gunna go on impact, FORWARD onto the accelerator.

SlickHolden- u keep sayin how unco right footers must be, im left footed, left handed and an brake perfectly fine with my left,and had to do this when i had an injured leg, but choose not to cause i feel its dangerous

[Full Spectrum]

It would take some serious impact for you to slam the accelerator peddle in a accident.
I'm using left sided people as a example that they can brake right foot and it's like second nature to them. same as right sided people braking left sided can become natural to them also.

But i still can't see how anyone can think it's dangerous to use the left foot to brake, I think it's the thing that has saved me from accidents over the years.

[XA Coupsta]

This is a great thread and its a shame that its in a downward spiral of minutely nit picking posts. I'll wear it on the chin for possibly helping with that same downward spiral but I'll try to refrain.

The reaction time was ONE peice of the puzzle.

I am willing to admit I'm not qualified to know what the exact reaction time would be. Whats your experience in the field?

And isnt it going to be a variable across different people anyway? All I was stating is that the reaction time will be worse. A simple statement that was backed up and validated by you - then somehow passed off as ok coz it was (via your calculations) 'only' 1.6metres (couldnt refrain that nit pick).

Experience is a great reference. I'm 31 - have been driving since 16 - I have never had one demerit point NOR one accident in my entire driving history. I'm dead serious. I'm no doubt very lucky over the years!!!! But I kid you not.

You are going to doubt it and its near impossible for me to prove anyway. Cross my heart this is true. I've owned my XA for 10 years - hey it attracts attention from the boys with the party hats on. Not one ticket or speeding fine or defect notice or ANYthing. (I have so jinxed myself now though)

You are 3 accidents ahead of me it seems - that is one part of experience I dont wish to catch up on.

The argument is deeper than reaction time if you choose to acknowledge that. And if you read the posts (I think you have anyway) you'll see on previous pages this has been presented.

Looks like this is an agree to disagree topic I guess. Im asking for an understanding into your thoughts as to why left foot is better - and I think I've raised some very valid questions (eg bracing) about why it isnt. Thats all. I still believe these are unchallenged.

Slickholden your posts/postings have lost all credibility as they are contradictory to themselves. You say you do alternate feet - then you say you dont - this is then questioned - and you go back to saying you do alternate feet but only on the highway........

Chevy power - I like that idea of mythbusters! Great show.

[Full Spectrum]

I brake right foot in manuals as everyone would.
I rest my left leg on the freeway. But if something like a roo ran out infront of me i would brake right foot as it's closer then my resting leg.
But as i said drivers today are more unpredictable and i have gotten to the point rarely rest my left leg anymore. If traffic is heavier on the freeway i will use my left leg as always if it's open and there isn't much traffic at all I'll rest. But i have had no reason to brake right foot in a long time, My time on a freeway is barley 2-3 stops not worth a rest and that's once a fortnight to Westfield shopping centre. I don't even tap the brake right foot when doing 100 and a speed camera comes up. When we travel to the footy we use the freeway, But with traffic being more heavy no time to rest. Last time i had a long distance drive was in January and that was a 2 hour trip.
I have never for a very long time to the point i can't remember used my right leg to brake in town or on a freeway in autos.
But like i said if i turn my head and look and i'm resting my left leg on the freeway and a roo is infront of me i would slam the brake with my right leg as it's closer then my resting leg. (Touch wood this hasnt happen)
But like i said earlier on i feel i can accelerate much better and much more smoothly with my right foot at the accelerator peddle. I even brake more smooth;y with my left leg.

But there is something that isn't fully explained here.

There are 3 different types of left foot braker.
1: The left foot braker from the foot rest.
2: The left foot braker close to the brake hover that wont let the brake light come on.
3: The left foot braker that touches it may cause the brake light to come on.

A right foot braker will get to the brake peddle faster then a left foot braker who is resting on the foot rest.
But no-one will beat a left foot hover braker to the brake.

Biggest thing thats got to be understood here is if someone has tried it and can't do it that doesn't mean it's bad wrong or can't be done or dangerous.

My mother understand this very easy, She doesn't brake left foot and she really can't do it it's uncomfortable to her and she can't apply the brake smoothly, But she love that i brake left foot because she has been in the car with me and seen some of the trouble we have gotten out of.
I told my mother of our topic and she told me my father was a left foot braker also something i didn't know.


Coupe what did you mean by 3 accidents ahead of you?.

[russellw]

We've done the reaction time test using our Stalker ATTS and V-Box equipment. Same driver and same conditions.

I was a little kind in my earlier estimates. Allowing for the relatively slower reactions of the driver used for the test (namely me), here are the results obtained.

Conditions: 20 deg C, fine
Vehicle: Chrysler 300C SRT8
Road: Hot mix bitumen in good condition.

Methodology:

1. Vbox activated for braking measurement.
2. Vehicle accelerated to 70 km/h and speed verified by ATTS radar unit.
3. Driver advised by radio to perform a crash stop. No prior warning provided.
4. 3 tests each conducted with both right and left foot braking (I use both in normal driving anyway). The left foot tests from a hovering position as stated in my earlier posts.
5. Results averaged across all tests to minimise the possibility of spurious results.

I think I originally estimated a quarter of a second difference but the reality in these tests amounted to almost six tenths of a second. This amounted to about 11 metres in additional stopping distance from the 70 km/h speed - close enough to 2 car lengths. I haven't had time to analyse the pile of data dumps yet but it would appear that the bulk of the delay for the right foot braking came from the dual signals required to be sent to the nervous system - it might even be 3 signals.

Now this is by no means a definitive test and my general drag strip RT is slower than a lot of people anyway so it is probably reasonable to assume that a younger and more reactive person might shave that to 0.4 of a second and reduce the distance to 7.5 metres or so.

Given that the VBox accepts external sensor inputs I am toying with the idea of adding a pressure sensitive switch to the top of the throttle and brake pedals so that I can more accurately time the removal and placement of the foot.

Cheers
Russ

[Silver Ghia]

Russ, it probably would be a good idea to do the test with a sample of drivers, both left foot and right foot brakers.

Also, obviously if the left foot is hovering over the pedal, this would react faster than a right foot braker with the right foot on the accelerator.

I would think that the left foot would not be hovering all the time over the pedal, only when anticipating 'danger'. If its not hovering all the time, you would need to ensure that the left foot is placed normally where it is when driving (ie. on the footrest or next to the brake pedal).

Would be interesting to see the results that you get.

[Scott]

Originally Posted by XA Coupsta

AAll I was stating is that the reaction time will be worse. A simple statement that was backed up and validated by you - then somehow passed off as ok coz it was (via your calculations) 'only' 1.6metres (couldnt refrain that nit pick).

Not validated by me at all. I think left foot is faster. I did not validate it, you said you thought right was quicker so I plucked a number to do a calc on how much distance would be lost if you were right...... and you weren't.

Good test Russ, first fact in this thread!

[Scott]

Originally Posted by Silver Ghia

I would think that the left foot would not be hovering all the time over the pedal, only when anticipating 'danger'.

That is the discussion point of left foot brakers in this thread. Anticipating danger for me is in traffic.

You're right with the need for a whole lot more testing but a good test it has been.

[1970galaxie]

Every thing here is so serious!
I use both feet when I stop the Galaxie. It's the only way I can get the bastard to pull up. I guess that's why the pedal on the things are so wide!
:-)

[Silver Ghia]

Can't see myself with the left foot hovering over the brake pedal for the whole hour getting to work, where there's traffic the whole time. I think my left foot would become quite unreactive after a while if it was (with the foot twisted around to reach the pedal because my knee is against the steering column). Is this brake pedal position only typical of BA's?

Also, I have found that an emergency braking situation normally happens when you least expect it.