First experience .. Vic law regarding passing emergency vehicle

[ratter]

Originally Posted by au2000

wont be murder....
manslaughter is a possibility, but murder is intent & there was no intent to kill.
truck driver if innuendo is true & was on the gear... is facing serious gaol time. ….

as for pusey.. well... there's no denying him filming a dying mother of 2 begging for help & all he could do was abuse her for wrecking his car...…

Nope, murder!

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Romulus

One must wonder how the legislation has allowed the creation of a situation now demonstrated to be so dangerous. I doubt the policy makers risk assessed the situation enough for both;

• The 40km/h speed limit near emergency vehicles on high density, high speed main arterial roads
• The impounding of vehicles on such roads

There really isn't enough justification to impound a vehicle on the road side, why not ask the vehicle owner to surrender the vehicle such as what is required in rural WA where roadside vehicle impounding isn't practical.

As for Pusey allegedly being charged for destruction of evidence, that's a joke, they're his phones, he can do what he wants with them. I bet there's a lot of soul searching and internal reviews going on within VicPol as to how the deaths of the 4 officers could have been prevented and who's responsible for this occurring. It's not the truck driver or the Porsche driver who created this dangerous work environment.

where is the evidence the law played a role? that is speculation at this point.

also, if it was caused by sudden slowing, is it really the law at fault or driving standards?

I know this has been discussed ad nauseum when the laws came in to effect but the emergency services have a right to a safe work place, just like everyone else. I believe it should include all roadside workers and some states have included orange lights however that is a separate discussion.

on approach to an incident it is not possible for the traffic to be able to determine what type of 'incident' is taking place, so its impossible to create legislation that says to only slow for paramedics for eg. The only way is to create a blanket rule for all situations involving flashing blue and reds.

yes, there are 'some' situations where visibility will be compromised however this could also come back to driving standards if people are not adjusting their driving to the 'conditions'.

I'm well aware of the reality and that the driving culture has made it seem 'normal' do drive in the manner many do but why should that absolve them from the fact that they are driving irresponsibly? the 'everyone else is doing it' excuse is right out of the primary school excuse book. you can argue time constraints or other 'pressures' but these just don't stack up. The time difference between tailgating and not tailgating would be miniscule over a journey.

these comments are not aimed directly at the incident in question but the law the thread is referring to.

as for the incident, its called an 'emergency stopping lane'. you should always expect there to be a possible stopped vehicle in that lane. blaming the police for being there is just hating on the police. They were doing their job. A driver speeding and on drugs is a danger to other road users.

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Its just standard life, there is a huge disconnect between the people who do and the people who make the rules.

You make a good point, I wonder if there's a case under OHS legislation here because the police were involved, the side of the Eastern Freeway is their 'workplace'.

And that's what I'm curious about. I work in construction, we're obliged to risk assess every task we do. Specifically, when we're working in live petrol station environments, where we have to specifically address the interaction with the public and their vehicles. We see first hand people can and do the most stupid and dangerous things when they're presented with a situation they're not accustomed to. Interaction with the public would rate as the highest risk we typically encounter.

I wonder if the risk assessment the Police had for the tasks undertaken that day factored in vehicle collisions into tow trucks and emergency vehicles as part of the task risk?

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by prydey

where is the evidence the law played a role? that is speculation at this point.

also, if it was caused by sudden slowing, is it really the law at fault or driving standards?

I know this has been discussed ad nauseum when the laws came in to effect but the emergency services have a right to a safe work place, just like everyone else. I believe it should include all roadside workers and some states have included orange lights however that is a separate discussion.

on approach to an incident it is not possible for the traffic to be able to determine what type of 'incident' is taking place, so its impossible to create legislation that says to only slow for paramedics for eg. The only way is to create a blanket rule for all situations involving flashing blue and reds.

yes, there are 'some' situations where visibility will be compromised however this could also come back to driving standards if people are not adjusting their driving to the 'conditions'.

I'm well aware of the reality and that the driving culture has made it seem 'normal' do drive in the manner many do but why should that absolve them from the fact that they are driving irresponsibly? the 'everyone else is doing it' excuse is right out of the primary school excuse book. you can argue time constraints or other 'pressures' but these just don't stack up. The time difference between tailgating and not tailgating would be miniscule over a journey.

these comments are not aimed directly at the incident in question but the law the thread is referring to.

as for the incident, its called an 'emergency stopping lane'. you should always expect there to be a possible stopped vehicle in that lane. blaming the police for being there is just hating on the police. They were doing their job. A driver speeding and on drugs is a danger to other road users.

It's patently clear you don't carry out risk assessments.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Romulus

And that's what I'm curious about. I work in construction, we're obliged to risk assess every task we do. Specifically, when we're working in live petrol station environments, where we have to specifically address the interaction with the public and their vehicles. We see first hand people can and do the most stupid and dangerous things when they're presented with a situation they're not accustomed to. Interaction with the public would rate as the highest risk we typically encounter.

I wonder if the risk assessment the Police had for the tasks undertaken that day factored in vehicle collisions into tow trucks and emergency vehicles as part of the task risk?

VIC also has some of the strongest OHS legislation in the country, our legislation is the basis on what the model WHS Act 2011 was created that other states implemented in the last decade with modifications.

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Porsche douche had weed and meth in his system.

Now the 41 year olds lawyer says he has mental health issues.

I won’t say anything else, it’s up to our legal system now.

[au2000]

Originally Posted by ratter

Nope, murder!

Unless it can be proved that the truck driver intentionally drove into the 4 members with the intent to kill... it's not murder

definitely 4 counts of culpable driving resulting in death or manslaughter ..
as for the claims that the same driver had been stopped earlier that was de-bunked earlier and confirmed not to be the case.

[ratter]

If the previous claims have been proven to be false, of course that makes sense, that’s obvious

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Fordman1

Now the 41 year olds lawyer says he has mental health issues.

I won’t say anything else, it’s up to our legal system now.

The mental health card is the go to get out of jail free card these days.

I wonder if he also had a mother who didn’t hug him enough. Or he’s part aboriginal.

[Professor Farnsworth]

Wait, we have a legal system now?

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Professor Farnsworth

Wait, we have a legal system now?

Sorta.

[Tassie f100]

Originally Posted by Professor Farnsworth

Wait, we have a legal system now?

We do have a legal system! But I’m not sure we always have a justice system

[pottery beige]

vicpol will have a go letting rip here

[prktkljokr]

Being a tow truck driver for many years ( not anymore ), I can tell you that all OHS goes out the window when your on the job, im not sure if they even have any OHS for us to follow apart from wear hi viz, safety boots and have flashing lights.

Im sure if they came out with OHS for us no one will be going anywhere if there is a accident or break down, as we would have to make our work environment safe, this would be stopping all traffic until the scene is clear.

I can never understand the amount of people that risk their lives by pulling over in a emergency lane just to do something that can wait till the next exit, like even for flat tyres, I would rather destroy the tyre driving to the next exit than risk changing it on the side of a freeway, the amount of people that have been killed over the years by just doing this 1 simple task is mind blowing.

As for those poor police officers, they too should have made the Porsche guy drive to the next exit and pull over, it should be mandatory for all officers to do so when on a roadway with a speedlimit over 60 k's, this will alleviate the risk and also not disrupt traffic from rubber neckers and space cadets that drive in another world.

We dont have the slow down law here, and living right on the freeway, I cant tell you how many close calls I have had, most people ignore orange flashing lights and its a joke, the amount of people out there that drink and drug drive is also out of control (had my fair share of run ins with drunk and drug affected morons).

At the end of the day no matter what you do as a job you need to assess the risk and make the right judgement, the Police force and the officers that died see this stuff so often you think that they would learn.

[MercuryT]

Typical Porsche *head.

I'm sure a good few exist. Sorry if so.

[MercuryT]

Originally Posted by pottery beige

vicpol will have a go letting rip here

Can only deal within State laws.

He won't see time in the big house.

Should but won't.

[GO FURTHER]

What I have always found amusing is how expensive, sports, fast or iconic cars are always mentioned and sensationalised by the media when they are involved in an accident or the driver is alleged to have committed a road traffic offence driving them.

You always hear...

"(Insert - Mustang, Ferrari, Porsche) driver dies in crash"

Or " Porsche driver was caught doing 160Km/hr in an 80 zone"

However, more popular cars are rarely highlighted in news headlines.

I mean do you ever read the headline...

"(Insert -Corolla, Hyundai, or Kia) driver writes car off in crash".

Are fast cars seen as a greater tragedy or associated with bringing out the "bad boy" image.

It would be politically incorrect to state...

"Indian or Lebanese driver caught speeding".

So why, this "certain brand or model car racism".

[prktkljokr]

Have just found out we have the same law here, not that anyone slows down anyway
Came in March 2018 obviously after I got out of towing

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by pottery beige

a moron would blame the porch driver

Anyone with a brain will blame the judge who approved his bail. He should have been locked up somewhere since he clearly wasn’t fit enough to be trusted in public.

[JasonACT]

(We will need more prisons, lots more.)

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by prktkljokr

At the end of the day no matter what you do as a job you need to assess the risk and make the right judgement, the Police force and the officers that died see this stuff so often you think that they would learn.

I guess that's the problem, if something is routine and you do it constantly for years on end you rock up and think well I've done this about a million times and it's business as usual.

Until it's not business as usual - enter ol mate Mohinder shard junkie and his truck.

I don't see why they need to impound cars on the spot, surely an amendment to the law that they can just give you the fine and say you've got 7 days to turn up to our impound yard at X address and hand over your license while you're there, if you don't turn up within that time we'll be coming to you with the tow truck and a warrant for your arrest.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by JasonACT

(We will need more prisons, lots more.)

I don't think so, putting people in jail should be the last option. It makes someone unemployable, it costs a ridiculous amount and they become a burden on the system after release.

Leave it to your typical violent criminals, there's no law against being a sociopath.

I find it interesting that Dick Pusey (that'll never get old ) is obviously rather successful at what he does otherwise he wouldn't be driving a Porsche and living in Fitzroy (Irony is Fitzroy USED to be a ghetto).

[ratter]

“I don't see why they need to impound cars on the spot, surely an amendment to the law that they can just give you the fine and say you've got 7 days to turn up to our impound yard at X address and hand over your license while you're there, if you don't turn up within that time we'll be coming to you with the tow truck and a warrant for your arrest. “

Because people will remove their expensive parts from their $2000 car and then not worry about going to collect it and pay their fees, just put the fees towards the next car.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by ratter

Because people will remove their expensive parts from their $2000 car and then not worry about going to collect it and pay their fees, just put the fees towards the next car.

What's the dollar figure on the four police officers lives that were lost because the scenario that played out a couple of days ago?

Worth more than a couple of cars collecting dust in the impound yard?

[ratter]

What?

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by GO FURTHER

It would be politically incorrect to state...

"Indian or Lebanese driver caught speeding".

So why, this "certain brand or model car racism".

That's only because Toyota Camry struggles to go over 90km/h in the right lane and the Commodore needs timing chains

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Ben73

Anyone with a brain will blame the judge who approved his bail. He should have been locked up somewhere since he clearly wasn’t fit enough to be trusted in public.

He was on bail for assault and theft. He was never going to be denied bail for minor crimes like those. The judge isn’t to blame at all.

This is not a case like adrian bailey, rapist who should never have been given bail with his rap sheet of violent crime. That judge should have been removed from his post. A woman is dead because of the stupid decision he made.

[prktkljokr]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

I don't see why they need to impound cars on the spot, surely an amendment to the law that they can just give you the fine and say you've got 7 days to turn up to our impound yard at X address and hand over your license while you're there, if you don't turn up within that time we'll be coming to you with the tow truck and a warrant for your arrest.

Impounding on the spot stops people hiding the car and them having to spend even more money to chasing the dirtbags around looking for it, plus as mentioned in another post they would take anything of value off the car making it not worth retrieving.

But sitting on the side of a freeway while waiting for the tow truck is not a good idea, the car drives, throw the looser in the cop car and get the other officer to drive it to a safe location off the freeway, they have to get the driver safely off the freeway as they cant let him walk from there (Duty of care also applies to assisting losers) its a terrible thing to happen, not just to the officers but to anyone, and they need to make rules a lot stricter for people pulling over on the side of a road that has a speed limit over 60.

I have been to some pretty nasty crashes that have involved stationary cars on the side of the road and a fair few fatalities im sure the police have seen a lot more.

Wonder how it would have been if the tow truck was there picking up the Porsche as well.

[XR Martin]

This guy got 3 years for two counts of dangerous driving occasioning death after hitting a towie and a bystander on the hume 8 years ago.
He wasn't on any drugs.

https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2014-...-fatal/5409014

I expect the truckie in this case will get at least ten years.

After this they changed the rules regarding tow trucks on the hume, and widened all the breakdown lanes.

[GO FURTHER]

Originally Posted by JasonACT

(We will need more prisons, lots more.)

We do... And we could do it very cheaply!

Businesses have been outsourcing and going off-shore to save costs for years now.

Our Government should do the same.

Do a deal with Indonesia or China, to off-shore our prisons.

We pay them to build them, and pay them to run them.

Anyone sentenced to a serious crime for 5 years or more, gets to serve their sentence overseas.

Put on a plane, then flown back to Oz when they have done their time.

Would also be a great deterrent... Do the crime, and do the time at the Bali Hilton.

And before anyone suggests how unjust and wrong the above would be...

Well, just remember, our British monarchy and forefathers did exactly the same thing 190 years ago.... Port Arthur.