Final FPV sparks kilowatt controversy (GT-F vs GTS)

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by ivandrago

So having read this thread dyno numbers dont matter anymore track lap times now do? so if another car is faster then the gts around the track its a better car then especially if it costs half as much or does that only count when its against the ford? cant have your cake and eat it to.

Just had to highlight this, couldn't be further from the truth.

It is only now that Ford has finally caught up with HSV's V8's that all of a sudden dyno figures and qtr mile time slips rate.

If these cars were tested in the traditional way, over half a dozen laps, the GTS would walk away.

Cost
KW
NM
or
ET

None of it matters when your opposition is walking away from you at Mt Panorama!

[BHDOGS]

guess theres is no controversy now the ford was more powerful most powerful australian car EVERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR so far

[billkara]

sooooo...
if Guinness records created a section for the most powerful Aussie car built, they will have the GT-F printed there...

kthnxbai

[BHDOGS]

as i recall with all its fanciery it was 2 seconds quicker around a track big whoop only people who are on holdens side would focus on that bollocks street light drags and dyno numbers is where its at. People dont race around mountains at night this isnt fast and the furious they have the odd squirt at the traffic lights or go to dyno days pahlease what a joke.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by BHDOGS

as i recall with all its fanciery it was 2 seconds quicker around a track big whoop only people who are on holdens side would focus on that bollocks street light drags and dyno numbers is where its at. People dont race around mountains at night this isnt fast and the furious they have the odd squirt at the traffic lights or go to dyno days pahlease what a joke.

Riight, so that makes the XY HO also redundant then, I mean, who cares about track results and it was slower over 400m than a 6cyl Charger...

[BHDOGS]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Riight, so that makes the XY HO also redundant then, I mean, who cares about track results and it was slower over 400m than a 6cyl Charger...

correct it is redundant it was 30 years ago let it go already.

[duaned]

Originally Posted by BHDOGS

as i recall with all its fanciery it was 2 seconds quicker around a track big whoop only people who are on holdens side would focus on that bollocks street light drags and dyno numbers is where its at. People dont race around mountains at night this isnt fast and the furious they have the odd squirt at the traffic lights or go to dyno days pahlease what a joke.

And only people on Ford's side focus on a dyno number? Pot Kettle Black ???

[BHDOGS]

Originally Posted by duaned

And only people on Ford's side focus on a dyno number? Pot Kettle Black ???

fords side on a ford forum yup we have a winner if you wanna hear holdens side its on ls1.com just because you brought a holden doesnt mean you have to go on a holden loving spree i own an old au by choice you dont see me hitting up every au hate thread. i know its a piece of **** but i still like it.

[dragons90]

Originally Posted by duaned

And only people on Ford's side focus on a dyno number? Pot Kettle Black ???

HSV made the claim of being the most powerful aussie car.

[shaness8]

Latest Motor magazine

GTF Auto 13.0 1/4 mile @ 181km, can't be making the claimed power going by these results.

There only stock F6 times.

[The Monty]

Originally Posted by shaness8

Latest Motor magazine

GTF Auto 13.0 1/4 mile @ 181km, can't be making the claimed power going by these results.

There only stock F6 times.

No, they are more like an XR6t time stock.

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by The Monty

No, they are more like an XR6t time stock.

Yeh , but on same day , same track , same conditions , that XR6t may have run a 13.9.

Need to wait for some times from real world owners with cars that have loosened up a bit. Mid to low 12's will be the norm for stockers, especially with just a tyre swap for something stickier.

[The Monty]

Originally Posted by Bluey-GT

Yeh , but on same day , same track , same conditions , that XR6t may have run a 13.9.

Need to wait for some times from real world owners with cars that have loosened up a bit. Mid to low 12's will be the norm for stockers, especially with just a tyre swap for something stickier.

Very true, my bad.

[SensationFG8]

You know there are gears in the diff right?

[2242100]

Originally Posted by SensationFG8

You know there are gears in the diff right?

Which slows down the rotation speed and multiplies the torque.

[PepeLePew]

Given again the 335 betters that I don't quite understand what's going on here....what was the commentary accompanying the number? Makes no sense. Conditions?

[2242100]

Originally Posted by PepeLePew

Given again the 335 betters that I don't quite understand what's going on here....what was the commentary accompanying the number? Makes no sense. Conditions?

The temperature was 7 degrees so the GTF should have had plenty of power, but traction would have been a problem. I'm starting to think that there may have been a number of runs with poor launches or at least burnouts (to heat tyres) in quick succession that killed the overboost for when they did the run that was published.
Whatever the case the 100 to 181 kmh time was very similar to my standard XR6T with it's overboost feature working. 8.2 sec vs 8.27 seconds at a 12 degree higher temperature and the GTF is better than that.

[hootar]

I may be wrong but Guys I'm not convinced of this overboost feature we keep talking about.

I mean how do we go "Over" the Maximum Boost?

My thought is that it makes full (maximum)boost and X amount of power (which no one other then Ford knows what that is at the moment). Then when temps etc reach pre determined situations that ford deem to be unsafe then the maximum boost is reduced, possibly by some type of bleed of valve etc. The minimum power it makes is what we believe to be approx 351 fwkw. (Again only ford at this stage know this figure). The rest of us at the moment are only guessing (this includes Wheels, Motoring, Motor, SM and us).

I think we need to see more of these cars on the dyno, drag strip, race track, traffic lights etc before we can make any real informed decision on what these motors do/make. All I see at the moment is a lot of people making a lot of assumptions using a lot of guess work. That's not good for anyone's credibility.

[Cashie]

Originally Posted by hootar

I may be wrong but Guys I'm not convinced of this overboost feature we keep talking about.

I mean how do we go "Over" the Maximum Boost?

My thought is that it makes full (maximum)boost and X amount of power (which no one other then Ford knows what that is at the moment). Then when temps etc reach pre determined situations that ford deem to be unsafe then the maximum boost is reduced, possibly by some type of bleed of valve etc. The minimum power it makes is what we believe to be approx 351 fwkw. (Again only ford at this stage know this figure). The rest of us at the moment are only guessing (this includes Wheels, Motoring, Motor, SM and us).

I think we need to see more of these cars on the dyno, drag strip, race track, traffic lights etc before we can make any real informed decision on what these motors do/make. All I see at the moment is a lot of people making a lot of assumptions using a lot of guess work. That's not good for anyone's credibility.

It's not what is known as an "over boost" function, ie providing a brief increase of boost. The Miami will provide the maximum boost all day as long as the engine remains outside the boost cut parameters.
The fact it can cut boost forces FPV to quote the lower value.
Ford have quoted under what exact conditions boost will be cut. (High temp, first gear etc).
Ford also quoted they expected the GT-F to make more that 320kW at the wheels when this GTS vs GT-F fiasco first occurred.

[tweeked]

Originally Posted by hootar

I may be wrong but Guys I'm not convinced of this overboost feature we keep talking about.

I mean how do we go "Over" the Maximum Boost?

Not so much overboosting as maintaining maximum boost further up the rev range when conditions allow. That is why the GTF makes no more torque but more power, holding boost for longer.

When conditions are not favourable it will pull timing and or open the valve you see at the back here (pic cortesy of BAGT514 from his thread- maybe an upgrade but you will still get the idea)

http://s237.photobucket.com/user/Ext...b5e8c.jpg.html

[PepeLePew]

Originally Posted by tweeked

Not so much overboosting as maintaining maximum boost further up the rev range when conditions allow. That is why the GTF makes no more torque but more power, holding boost for longer.

When conditions are not favourable it will pull timing and or open the valve you see at the back here (pic cortesy of BAGT514 from his thread- maybe an upgrade but you will still get the idea)

http://s237.photobucket.com/user/Ext...b5e8c.jpg.html

It is interesting to note that the GS doesn't appear to suffer this misrepresentation of output and dyno numbers seem smack on advertised numbers If all misrepresentations were of this kind we'd all be very happy campers.

PS...I've heard a rumour that they haven't shared any results from the new dyno session as the story is still to be rubber stamped at Fishermans Bend

[shaness8]

Forgot to add the VF R8 340kw manual run a 13.5 @ 177km.

Think I'll put the books away and wait for some owners get real numbers at the track, i'm sure low 12's is on the cards.

[timeout]

Wow lot of dribble in here... I am surprised no one has mentioned dodgey fuel? For either of the cars that day.

[Professor Farnsworth]

Sounds about right

[BHDOGS]

nah mate not possible the fpv only does high 13s wheels said so.

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by BHDOGS

nah mate not possible the fpv only does high 13s wheels said so.

Depends on testing criteria

Wheels normally test with full tank of petrol and a passenger on board - apparently - not sure if this has changed recently.

If someone else tests with 1/4 tank and no passenger - you would of course expect it to be quicker.

I think Wheels also carries about 100Kg extra of EGO - so that alone would slow down any car.....

[2242100]

[QUOTE=Bluey-GT;5163040]Depends on testing criteria

Wheels normally test with full tank of petrol and a passenger on board - apparently - not sure if this has changed recently.

If someone else tests with 1/4 tank and no passenger - you would of course expect it to be quicker.

I think Wheels also carries about 100Kg extra of EGO - so that alone would slow down any car.....




That's apparently no longer the case. I was told by a staff member around 18 months ago that they had stopped running 2 up and towards the end both passenger and driver were generally quite light. I believe that the Manual RSPEC 4.5 to 100 and 12.6 sec 400 metre run was driver only.

[Whitey-AMG]

[QUOTE=2242100;5163691]

Originally Posted by Bluey-GT

Depends on testing criteria

Wheels normally test with full tank of petrol and a passenger on board - apparently - not sure if this has changed recently.

If someone else tests with 1/4 tank and no passenger - you would of course expect it to be quicker.

I think Wheels also carries about 100Kg extra of EGO - so that alone would slow down any car.....



That's apparently no longer the case. I was told by a staff member around 18 months ago that they had stopped running 2 up and towards the end both passenger and driver were generally quite light. I believe that the Manual RSPEC 4.5 to 100 and 12.6 sec 400 metre run was driver only.

Yes - I had read that there may have been a change but wasn't sure.
I'll just stick with my other theory on the big heads and ego weighing the cars down then, wheels times are always much slower than most other mags get so makes you wonder wtf they're doing so badly. Maybe they need to check the handbrake has been released next time.

[2242100]

[QUOTE=Bluey-GT;5163722]

Originally Posted by 2242100

Yes - I had read that there may have been a change but wasn't sure.
I'll just stick with my other theory on the big heads and ego weighing the cars down then, wheels times are always much slower than most other mags get so makes you wonder wtf they're doing so badly. Maybe they need to check the handbrake has been released next time.

It's a bit of a mixed bag I think and depends a lot on the conditions. For example
Wheels got a very good 6.5 to 100 and 14.5 sec 400 metre time out of an ECOBOOST 2 litre Falcon and 6.1/ 14.2 out of an Aurion under admittedly cool conditions with a light driver.
On the other hand Motor could only manage a 14 seconds plus 400 metre time for an FG Turbo Falcon on one occasion and their time for the new Auto GTF was much slower than Wheels got. They can't always have the best conditions.

[SensationFG8]

There seems to be a noticeable silence from wheels on the retest... Wonder if they've decided to let this slide away silently.