Another tragic addition to the toll last night.

geckoGT · 06-01-2013, 02:54 PM

Another two lives lost because one moment of silly choices.

Lets take the safe options on the road.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/q...-1226548290074

**Burnout** · 06-01-2013, 08:49 PM

Sad, sad day indeed.
Did you respond to that one? If so you have taken a big hit.

cal0006 · 06-01-2013, 09:01 PM

It's a shame. It's reasons like this that they really need to have more driver education when it comes to this sort of thing (speed, cornering etc). I mean most drivers I know, mainly younger people, don't know how their car handles in certain conditions, such as in the wet when cornering etc.

Sure, one could argue that you probably won't need these skills, but what happens when you do need them?

IMO they should publicly announce when skid-pans will be open to the public. Some people just need to see what happens in a car when you're doing 40, 80 and 100 in the dry and in the wet, and what happens when you swerve, corner, or brake heavily.

My condolences to the families of the victims.

geckoGT · 06-01-2013, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burnout

Sad, sad day indeed.
Did you respond to that one? If so you have taken a big hit.

Yes, first ambulance crew on scene.

I feel sorry for the fire service as they spend a lot longer on scene with the cut out.

A very sad scene and very sobering considering my own daughter is currently eligible and looking forward to her L's.

LG17 · 06-01-2013, 09:25 PM

I have great empathy for people like you geckoGT and nothing but admiration for the work you do.

Whilst it is a very unfortunate ending for the 2 girls, they have no-one but themselves to blame. The car didn't belong to them - they took the keys from the house where they were partying and stole it. They had also been drinking.

I'm just glad they didn't take anyone else with them.

Apologies if I'm blunt but that's the way I feel.

Jim Goose · 06-01-2013, 09:42 PM

There has been a few other high speed crashes this year already...
Another one in NSW which was at high speed with a 21yr old female driver

http://freenews.com.au/eastern-subur...ident-in-tempe

Sadly not a good start to the year it seems

geckoGT · 06-01-2013, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LG17

I have great empathy for people like you geckoGT and nothing but admiration for the work you do.

Whilst it is a very unfortunate ending for the 2 girls, they have no-one but themselves to blame. The car didn't belong to them - they took the keys from the house where they were partying and stole it. They had also been drinking.

I'm just glad they didn't take anyone else with them.

Apologies if I'm blunt but that's the way I feel.

While there are undoubtably some facts in what you have said, there are also some assumptions that are yet to be confirmed. Yes they were silly but lets not forget that they have paid the ultimate price for their silliness and at the moment there are two grieving families.

Myself, I made my daughter watch the news and showed her pics of the crash scene (not of the bodies). The only thing I can do is educate my child , everyone should do the same.

Auslandau · 06-01-2013, 09:55 PM

Have to say, finding out suddenly that your kids are old enough for L's, then P's and watching them jump into cars with other, unknown to you, newly acquired P platers, it is quite scary. Nothing you can do to other than educate, show them the outcomes and just hope in hell some of it sinks in. My son has just hit 24. Luckily he has behaved himself very much so hopefully some of what I have told him has sunk in.

I found out I was a hopeless instructor ..... way too nervous and left it to the professionals. Still ..... a very worrying time as parents but its all part of growing up

No parent should go through this .... it is just to sad for the families and no matter why they did it or the circumstances surrounding it, the punishment does not fit the crime for all and no one should really suggest it does.

mik · 06-01-2013, 10:43 PM

You can't put an old head on young shoulders unfortunatelly, we all think we are invinceable when we are young. (we have no life experiences to tell us otherwise), very sad indeed.

GTP534 · 07-01-2013, 10:13 AM

Fully agree Auslandau.

My eldest girl got her L's a few months back and I've decided to leave it to the Driving School for the first 20 to 30 hours or so.

Most of her friends can't drive at the moment but you even worry about them when they get in someone else's car.

Guys like GeckoGT, and the police/fire brigade, at these sorts of scenes, regardless of where the blame might lie, have my total empathy.

Keepleft · 07-01-2013, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTP534

Fully agree Auslandau.

My eldest girl got her L's a few months back and I've decided to leave it to the Driving School for the first 20 to 30 hours or so.

Good and appropriate move. Had you heard of the free national driving lesson (KeysToDrive)??? This IS the national driver training system, it focus is on the defensive driver components, and tries to break some of the 'poor driver habits' parents pass on.

Feedback so far, should families take on additional tuition beyond the 'free' hour, is that cost p/h is too high (so they say) - $80 et al.
https://www.keys2drive.com.au/default.aspx

http://www.nrmasaferdriving.com.au/k...FchZpQodLDcAvw

**GasoLane** · 07-01-2013, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Auslandau

I found out I was a hopeless instructor ..... way too nervous and left it to the professionals.

Good move, I see far too many parents/relatives/friends teaching kids to drive only to pass on their own bad habits.

Hopefully a few lessons with a professional will at least get them started the right way.

(Then dad can take them to the AFF Drags and show them how to get the Landau sideways

)

Franco Cozzo · 07-01-2013, 11:23 AM

Everyone drives like a moron when they first get their Ps, I did in my WS Fiesta. I remember going through Oaklands Junction roundabout near Melbourne Airport heading towards the airport from Bulla at close to 90km/h cutting through both left lanes to make it around, hammering it up Mt Macedon multiple times and spinning the front right wheel.

I got my license when I was working at Honda and they sent me out to do running around in near new demo cars, bouncing them off the limiter, shifting at redline, some poor bastard would have bought them.

That first year of P plates is where you do your worst I reckon.

Young people take risks, you can't do anything about it.

After I had my accident in my Focus I calmed down and when that happened I wasn't even driving like a moron.

You hear about these accidents all the time, but its just another thing you brush off because it won't happen to me.

You turn 18, pass your license test, all the sudden on that faithful day you go out on the road yourself, you can legally purchase alcohol and smokes on the same day, and you do it with a car load of friends.

What scares me is P platers with Falcons/Commodores as their very first cars for obvious reasons, one of my younger mates has a VY Commodore and all he does is rips skids everywhere.

One of our apprentices also had a VY Commodore and did the same thing, then traded it for a S14 turbo Nissan Silvia, and the first time he drives it he wraps it around a tree, hits just behind the B pillar drivers side, luckily he didn't seriously hurt himself. He bent the chassis rail on the drivers side thats how hard he hit the tree.

XBROO · 07-01-2013, 11:31 AM

I know it's not good for the family and friend to lose two young girls this way, but LG17 has got a point. Even though it's not a compassionate thing to say, them girls could of killed others, with their action they took that night. They paid the ultimate price for their stupidity, but in the end thank god they didn't kill an innocent young family.

EL2794 · 07-01-2013, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XBROO

I know it's not good for the family and friend to lose two young girls this way, but LG17 has got a point. Even though it's not a compassionate thing to say, them girls could of killed others, with their action they took that night. They paid the ultimate price for their stupidity, but in the end thank god they didn't kill an innocent young family.

I agree with what you have said, but the second girl probably didnt really have any choice in the way her friend drove. Not saying she didnt egg her on or whatever, but most teenagers won't say anything if their friends are doing something stupid in fear of being ridiculed.

Having been in a accident when a friend (on P's for 2 weeks) spun his VT into a gutter missing a stobey pole and a tree by cm's, you sort of go along with him and what he's doing even though you may be **** scared. Screw that now though, If someones being stupid I GTFO of that car immediately, I'd rather walk home alive than....

stevz · 07-01-2013, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EL2794

I agree with what you have said, but the second girl probably didnt really have any choice in the way her friend drove.

Yes but she did have the choice of getting into the car or not and in this case it was a stolen vehicle, so very little sympathy from me.

flappist · 07-01-2013, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevz

Yes but she did have the choice of getting into the car or not and in this case it was a stolen vehicle, so very little sympathy from me.

Yes 16 year olds always think things through and never cave in to peer pressure.......

Now this is a tragedy and two young lives have been lost. AFF is a public forum and comments on here can be read by anyone with internet access.

Everyone please keep this in mind when posting as it is a long way down off a high horse when you are on an extended holiday..... dong ma?

geckoGT · 07-01-2013, 02:58 PM

Lets also not forget that the police investigation is not complete and any information out there at the moment is nothing more than rumor. Don't always trust what the reporters say, getting viewers/readers takes priority over the truth to them.

BOOSTEDGAZ · 07-01-2013, 08:29 PM

I work as a high Voltage network operator here in NZ and i can tell you it is absolutely frightning how many car v poles there are like this and how many are still alcohol and speed related. I know of particular areas in NZ (Tauranga for example) where we are dealing with car v poles every weekend and my faultman are out there making it safe before the ambos etc can get in to do there job. It is sickening the amount of in particular Friday and Saturday nights that i am on shift and the alarms go off to tell me we have had a tripping (loss of supply) and i send my guys out looking knowing that some one has just been hurt or killed. Power poles are not forgiving let alone the High Voltage lines attached to them.

On a side note for the lucky ones who do make it most of them don't realise the HUGE bills that can follow. Depending on the type of pole and what equipment is attached and how much of an area it takes out i have seen bills being charged to the drivers ranging from $20k to well over $100K. If you take into account the amount of these accidents that are alcohol related which means no insurance it's a quick way to end up with an unwanted mortage. We had a young driver 6 months ago hit a pole drunk which had a transformer and recloser with expensive comms gear that turned a large area off for 6 hours. He spent 2 months in hospital and received a bill of $137K at the end of it. not only will he be spending a long time recovering but a even longer time paying it off.

GCRXR6 · 07-01-2013, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geckoGT

Yes, first ambulance crew on scene.

I feel sorry for the fire service as they spend a lot longer on scene with the cut out.

A very sad scene and very sobering considering my own daughter is currently eligible and looking forward to her L's.

I hope you are OK Gecko. Look after yourself and your partner.

Having your children grow then get their l's and then P's is both an exciting ans stressfull time for parents. Sobering for we Paras. No Paramedic, Firey or Cop should want to be responding to their family. I've had to repond to a crash involving my daughter some years ago. Fair dinkum ... your senses are skewed without you realising it. I parked along side the wreck with the cross timber danlging by the high voltage wires above and a great split in the pole. Luckily she was OK and I came to my senses, reassessed what I had done and moved the vehicle quickly. It was only a few minutes, but a few minutes too long. I never did before and never have since, done anything that stupid.

Even now, that they've grown to be adults with their own families, I still have it the back of my mind, and have a palpitation or two, if called to an RTC near their work travel times.

Take care Gecko.

P6LTD351 · 07-01-2013, 10:51 PM

These events make me SO angry.

I just don't know why I never caved to peer pressure when I was 16. Still haven't. Maybe because I believe in MYSELF. Maybe that's what we should be instilling in our children.

Anyway, I love this forum and don't want to get banned so I will just say:

1. I am sorry for what the families of the girls are going through.
2. I am thankful that no innocent people or families were killed.
3. Such tragedy happens all too often.

faircoupe · 07-01-2013, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geckoGT

Yes, first ambulance crew on scene.

I feel sorry for the fire service as they spend a lot longer on scene with the cut out.

A very sad scene and very sobering considering my own daughter is currently eligible and looking forward to her L's.

Full respect to you geckoGT and all the other Ambos and the work you have to do,I would have been there too with the cut out had I been rostered on,(energex) have seen it too many times. Such a tragic loss of life...

flappist · 08-01-2013, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eb2monty

These events make me SO angry.

I just don't know why I never caved to peer pressure when I was 16. Still haven't. Maybe because I believe in MYSELF. Maybe that's what we should be instilling in our children.

Anyway, I love this forum and don't want to get banned so I will just say:

1. I am sorry for what the families of the girls are going through.
2. I am thankful that no innocent people or families were killed.
3. Such tragedy happens all too often.

5 ford vehicles and 7 years of membership on a Ford forum.....yep no peer pressure there.....

Matt5933 · 08-01-2013, 02:43 PM

Very tragic loss. The accident happened quite close to where I live as well.

From personal experiences with friends I feel so many young drivers have formed terrible attitudes towards driving. One friend I work with thinks absolutely nothing of drinking a carton of beer then driving home. The consequences of these actions are meaningless to him.

A closer friend of mine who unfortunately is an alcoholic (20 years old) is constantly over the limit (Red P plates). The guy drinks a six pack of beer before breakfast before downing a bottle of rum followed by beers during the rest of the day. He drives constantly over the limit. To get food, to parks or to buy more alcohol. We have tried multiple times to get him to stop but he simply doesn't care because "nah its cool i can drive drunk really well". we lecture him about losing his licence, having no insurance and killing someone, but it simply doesn't cross his mind.

I was at a new years party this year and at about 11 two girls wanted to drive their car to the local bottle shop to get more. When people challenged them all they said was 'its not far, there will be no cops stop being so weak'. Fortunately they didn't drive. But it just shows so many people show no concern for their actions.

Just as I was about to submit this my alcoholic friend txt me saying his is down the local boat ramp (park) drinking a 6 pack and eating KFC. Once again drink driving like its simply nothing.

Streets · 08-01-2013, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt5933

A closer friend of mine who unfortunately is an alcoholic (20 years old) is constantly over the limit (Red P plates). The guy drinks a six pack of beer before breakfast before downing a bottle of rum followed by beers during the rest of the day. He drives constantly over the limit. To get food, to parks or to buy more alcohol. We have tried multiple times to get him to stop but he simply doesn't care because "nah its cool i can drive drunk really well". we lecture him about losing his licence, having no insurance and killing someone, but it simply doesn't cross his mind.

If you really want to stop him -- or at least make it harder for him -- you know who to call.

noflac52 · 08-01-2013, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Streets

If you really want to stop him -- or at least make it harder for him -- you know who to call.

I know what you are saying here but the reality is that he will probably just drive without a licence because he doesn't care. Shame shame shame!

Bud Bud · 08-01-2013, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt5933

Very tragic loss.

I agree totally but...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt5933

A closer friend of mine who unfortunately is an alcoholic (20 years old) is constantly over the limit (Red P plates). The guy drinks a six pack of beer before breakfast before downing a bottle of rum followed by beers during the rest of the day. He drives constantly over the limit. To get food, to parks or to buy more alcohol. We have tried multiple times to get him to stop but he simply doesn't care because "nah its cool i can drive drunk really well". we lecture him about losing his licence, having no insurance and killing someone, but it simply doesn't cross his mind.

If you can't help him like a mate should be able to then dob him in before it's too late because he could quite easily be on the other end of something very similar. You have already published this info in a public forum so you have made everyone else very aware of his actions and nobody wants blood on there hands.

I have no time for drink drivers and it will be equally devastating for the dead passengers family to find if the other female driver was also over the limit after the investigation, and especially if other friends (the same ones that now morn their deaths on facebook) knew before hand as well...

Bud Bud

mik · 08-01-2013, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noflac52

I know what you are saying here but the reality is that he will probably just drive without a licence because he doesn't care. Shame shame shame!

Very true, in my younger days I had a mate that drove without a licence and broke just about every rule in the book, his motto was if you have'nt got one they can't take it away.

cal0006 · 08-01-2013, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt5933

Very tragic loss. The accident happened quite close to where I live as well.

From personal experiences with friends I feel so many young drivers have formed terrible attitudes towards driving. One friend I work with thinks absolutely nothing of drinking a carton of beer then driving home. The consequences of these actions are meaningless to him.

A closer friend of mine who unfortunately is an alcoholic (20 years old) is constantly over the limit (Red P plates). The guy drinks a six pack of beer before breakfast before downing a bottle of rum followed by beers during the rest of the day. He drives constantly over the limit. To get food, to parks or to buy more alcohol. We have tried multiple times to get him to stop but he simply doesn't care because "nah its cool i can drive drunk really well". we lecture him about losing his licence, having no insurance and killing someone, but it simply doesn't cross his mind.

I was at a new years party this year and at about 11 two girls wanted to drive their car to the local bottle shop to get more. When people challenged them all they said was 'its not far, there will be no cops stop being so weak'. Fortunately they didn't drive. But it just shows so many people show no concern for their actions.

Just as I was about to submit this my alcoholic friend txt me saying his is down the local boat ramp (park) drinking a 6 pack and eating KFC. Once again drink driving like its simply nothing.

Your friend obviously has issues and IMO he should be behind bars by now. If I were you, I'd (anonymously if you desire) ring up your local cop shop, give as much detail as possible. That he drives constantly drives intoxicated.

I'm almost disappointed that you actually haven't reported him yet. Sure, I know people who break the law (just a little bit of fun - accelerate vigerously, break traction, standard stuff) but the difference being, there's a time and a place. If I break the law, I do it when a) there's no one around to become a fatality apart from me and b) The conditions allow. Lecture me on breaking the law, whatever.

But drink driving is a whole kettle of fish. You don't just "stop" being drunk if you have a near miss. You don't resume driving to the conditions when you're drunk.

The fact is that you have severely impared reflexes, you cannot make accurate decisions, and you don't drive to your skill level (unless you're an absolute shithouse driver).

P6LTD351 · 08-01-2013, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

5 ford vehicles and 7 years of membership on a Ford forum.....yep no peer pressure there.....

What are you getting at? That I've fallen to peer pressure because I have 5 Fords and been a member of this forum for 7 years? You don't become a Ford fan from peer pressure. If anything, peer pressure would have made me a Holden fan. Ford is the underdog.

Unless I have misinterpreted your statement?