Anyone else lost their licence driving thru the Clem7?

[Ford17]

Low and behold; Clem7 customer numbers are dropping.

June 2011 has the lowest vehicle usage numbers of all time - 28,244; down from 31,748 in February, and 33,068 in September 2010.

I wonder if they realise a lot of their previous customers may now not be able to drive anywhere at all, let alone back through their tunnel; all thanks to their camera debacle.

[geckoGT]

If it is a case of the sign said 80 km/h as you went past it, then the speed limit to you is 80 until you have been advised differently by another sign, end of story. If you go past the sign and then it changes to 40, that does not apply to you until you have been advised by the next sign.

This idea of radios being fair notification is fundamentally flawed on a number of points. One is that there is no ADR stipulating that a radio must be fitted to a car and it is not an element of a road worthy inspection that it works. Second, virtually no motor bikes have radios. Third, some vehicles although fitted with radios, the radio is often switched off for valid reason. An example of this last point is my ambulance, I rarely have the radio switched on as there are too many other things happening as a part of the conduct of my duties to permit the distraction. Finally, hearing impaired people are able to hold a full drivers license but are unlikely to listen to the radio.

That is why there are supposed to be adequate signage, it seems the signage may not be adequate.

By the way, to the person that claimed government vehicles get fines quashed, no we don't, we get them like every one else. Even speed camera shots with red and blue lights flashing in it get sent to our superiors for investigation.

[Ford17]

An update from today's Courier Mail:

Clem 7 user numbers have dropped by 2,000 cars per day, after news of the ridiculous fixed speed camera set-up was reported in the media.

Hopefully some forum members here were/are able to save themselves from being victims too. Remember you can't get fined for speeding in gridlock traffic

[Zero_PSI]

They do that in the roadworks down here. They continue the 40 zone well after the roadworks end. And if you speed in tge slightest you get pinged.

[2011G6E]

It isn't just down there...they've got a habit of doing that at roadworks out here on the Capricorn Highway. you'll go past a sign saying "80-roadworks", and then nothing...you'll be in a line of cars cautiously creeping along waiting for the "end of roadworks" sign, but there isn't one. Then you'll see the back of another sign on the other side of the road, and glance at it in the mirror, seeing the sign for "80, roadworks" facing the other way. But there's no "end of roadworks" sign.
I just speed back up to 100 or 110 depending on the location and limit. However, I still worry for a while what will happen if a cop comes the other way and I've got it wrong...

It's even worse when they did the same thing with a couple of ones that went "80" then "60", and there was no end of roadworks sign...no one would want to get pinged for 40 or 50 over the limit...


I think they'll find that the people who don't want to use the tunnel aren't irresponsible drivers who "want to speed through the tunnel", but rather people who don't want to risk losing thier licence if they go past a sign that has suddenly changed the speed limit...something that just shouldn't be allowed anywhere. Either have a set limit or put out physical signs on the road to say roadworks ahead. None of this digital crap where it can flick to a different speed just as you are about to pass it.
In the trains out here, sometimes a signal will "drop out" on you, going back to red from green for some reason, usually a momentary fault. No big deal, you come to a stop and get a form to proceed past the faulty signal. I've hd a couple of instances however when control has had to tell me the signal went red before I passed it and to stop the train and get a form.
They work by the steel wheels contacting a track circuit, which when triggered is behind where you sit and drive past, out of sight. We watch the signals until they go out of sight beside us, then look forward again. if it flicks to red beside you, you won't notice it, but control will as they get an alarm.

Now in the tunnel, what happens if you check the speed sign, and just before you pass it, it flicks to a different, lower, speed? Is there a delay? Because technically you are now speeding along that section.

I know that would put me off driving through it...besides the fact I don't believe we should be paying tolls on any road, given the amount of rego and fuel taxes we pay...

[Bundy]

Originally Posted by Zero_PSI

They do that in the roadworks down here. They continue the 40 zone well after the roadworks end. And if you speed in tge slightest you get pinged.

Its Brand NEW,, why do they even need road works????


thats rhectorical by the way

[sudszy]

Originally Posted by Forda

Yeah, 6 month driving disqualification; 8 points & 900 bux...
I guess we'll survive financially as a family, but, WTF?
We were driving at 84, speed limit suddenly droped to 40, and bang - we're done (camera clocked) for 44 over the 'limit'. Like we'd ploughed through a kiddie's crossing at twice the 40 km/h limit - much like your average suburban maniac killer.
My advice is just don't use the Clem7 tunnel - you can't get caught speeding in gridlock...

Is it 40km/h over and you lose your licence?

If you'd been keeping to the previous 80km/h limit we wouldnt be hearing about this tale of woe?

[rayner22]

Originally Posted by sudszy

Is it 40km/h over and you lose your licence?

If you'd been keeping to the previous 80km/h limit we wouldnt be hearing about this tale of woe?

Oh yeah, here we go again....................................

Id say on his behalf it was probably due to the fact that most of the Clem7 is very steeply downhill on entry.... and anyway 4 kms over is WITHIN the acceptable variation in speed in Qld.


EDIT: Your lucky you edited before more than just myself saw your original unedited post. 84 in a 80 for your information is not a serious offence.

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by bundy

Its Brand NEW,, why do they even need road works????


thats rhectorical by the way

Why does it need work? Probably because it was built exactly to the standards required by the Transport Department...

Couldn't be worse than the "roadworks" out here...they usually just pull up to a massive hole, a couple of guys chuck a few shovels-full of some bitumened gravel in the hole, and then drive the truck over it a few times. That's quality workmanship right there...

[bigsta]

Originally Posted by fowlerj

They make you go 40km/h for entering a tunnel?

In Sydney I can't think of a tunnel that does that! Our harbour tunnel is still a fixed 80km/h no matter what. None of this variable rubbish and its an enclosed space thats the longest in Sydney (I think?)

Some of the other tunnels have a variable speed but I've rarely seen them used unless it bad weather or an accident.

M5 east does the same thing speed limit changes 3 or 4 times it use to be 10 or so until the media got hold of it.

Speed cameras especially the ones at intersections cause accidents they do not prevent them at all and anyone who thinks doing 65 in a 60 zone is a hanging offence is a idiot the only time speeding less than 20 over becomes dangerous is when you are racing traffic not moving with it.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Now in the tunnel, what happens if you check the speed sign, and just before you pass it, it flicks to a different, lower, speed? Is there a delay? Because technically you are now speeding along that section.

apparently there is a delay, but how accurate it is is anyones guess. you won't know until a few weeks later when you get the fine. by then you'll have no chance of remembering the incident, let alone whether or not the sign was 80 or 40 as you passed it.

[Ford17]

The Police are now tearing up a lot of the speeding tickets issued, as mentioned in today's Courier Mail

Looks like an admittance to wrongly accusing motorists of speeding in the first place.

I wonder how the self-righteous now feel with this revelation?

[csv8]

Originally Posted by Forda

The Police are now tearing up a lot of the speeding tickets issued, as mentioned in today's Courier Mail

Looks like an admittance to wrongly accusing motorists of speeding in the first place.

I wonder how the self-righteous now feel with this revelation?

Will those who lost their licences get them back???? Police got caught out..should happen more often

[Jim Goose]

Originally Posted by csv8

Will those who lost their licences get them back???? Police got caught out..should happen more often

"Police" got caught out? um..er... no they didnt.
The owners of the tunnel were

[cowgirlup]

Mate of mine clocked up three fines in one week using that silly tunnel! The speed limits are clearly marked though and if you stick to them it really shouldn't be an issue.

Don't speed and you wont have a problem!

[Ford17]

Originally Posted by cowgirlup

Mate of mine clocked up three fines in one week using that silly tunnel! The speed limits are clearly marked though and if you stick to them it really shouldn't be an issue.

Don't speed and you wont have a problem!

Haven't you read the news?

People are being fined for speeding through an un-marked/confusingly-marked/poorly-marked *instant* 40 zone, when the signs are otherwise showing 80.

Now the situation is being partially-remedied as the Police are tearing up 500+ of those speeding infringement notices. That's only a small portion of those who have been *entrapped*, but it's still an admission of fault on how these Clem7 speed cameras operate.

The real word of advice here is: if you drive through the Clem7, drive at 40 km/h; or better still avoid it at *all* costs.

[kpcart]

Originally Posted by Forda

Yeah, 6 month driving disqualification; 8 points & 900 bux...
I guess we'll survive financially as a family, but, WTF?
We were driving at 84, speed limit suddenly droped to 40, and bang - we're done (camera clocked) for 44 over the 'limit'. Like we'd ploughed through a kiddie's crossing at twice the 40 km/h limit - much like your average suburban maniac killer.
My advice is just don't use the Clem7 tunnel - you can't get caught speeding in gridlock...

Question 1 - Why didnt you drop your speed to 40?
why did you drive 84 in a 40 zone? i get frustrated when i drive in perth when we come up to road works, and the speed signs say, 60 or 40, and most people slow down, then you have idiots speed past with no respect at 80 or 100km, and i think serves them right if they get caught. besides the lack of respect, it infuriates other drivers and then other drivers copy them. next we have a whole population of bad drivers. accept your penalty and move on and take more care next time.

[kpcart]

Originally Posted by Forda

Haven't you read the news?

People are being fined for speeding through an un-marked/confusingly-marked/poorly-marked *instant* 40 zone, when the signs are otherwise showing 80.

Now the situation is being partially-remedied as the Police are tearing up 500+ of those speeding infringement notices. That's only a small portion of those who have been *entrapped*, but it's still an admission of fault on how these Clem7 speed cameras operate.

The real word of advice here is: if you drive through the Clem7, drive at 40 km/h; or better still avoid it at *all* costs.

no one was entrapped, like the person above said, they are clearly marked. problem is one or 2 ignore the signs, and everyone else follows their lead.

[cs123]

Originally Posted by Forda

Yeah, 6 month driving disqualification; 8 points & 900 bux...
I guess we'll survive financially as a family, but, WTF?
We were driving at 84, speed limit suddenly droped to 40, and bang - we're done (camera clocked) for 44 over the 'limit'. Like we'd ploughed through a kiddie's crossing at twice the 40 km/h limit - much like your average suburban maniac killer.
My advice is just don't use the Clem7 tunnel - you can't get caught speeding in gridlock...

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/q...-1226095304318

ANYONE who appeals a speeding fine from going through the Clem7 tunnel should be prepared for a fight.

That's according to speeding fine consultant Scott Cooper who is dealing with 111 people who have been issued with an infringement notice from going through the Brisbane tunnel.

The Queensland Police has withdrawn 541 notices following complaints from motorists who were being fined up to $933 after being snapped doing 80km/h in the tunnel when the speed limit was suddenly cut to 40km/h.

Mr Cooper said it was too early to say if any of his clients were among those withdrawn. But he said he was still advising his clients to appeal any notices based on what he saw as irregularities over the operation of the speed cameras in the tunnel.

The Manual of Uniform Traffic Control Devices states that speed cameras should be used in areas where there is a history of crashes or accidents that result in injury or death, he said.

[rancidpunx]

TO the idiots still moaning about going over the 40 speed limit. The offenders where not aware of the change in speed limit. They were passing signs that said 80 but moments later the signs automatically change to 40. These people carry on doing 80 unaware of the change just behind the, but pass a speed camera before they passed the next speed sign. End of argument. They were not speeding. (although I will give you the OP, 84 is still 4ks over the 80 and its probable he would have got a fine anyway)

There would be plenty of guys who though that do blast through roadworks but the respect goes both ways. Signs need to be removed when the workers are not there. There was a new sub-division close to where I live and they had roadwork signs up 3 months before they even started any work. As such nobody paid attention to the signs. Its very frustrating and its only a 2 minute job for the workers to remove the signs at the end of the day and another 2 mins to put them back up in the morning.

[Ford17]

Originally Posted by kpcart

no one was entrapped, like the person above said, they are clearly marked. problem is one or 2 ignore the signs, and everyone else follows their lead.

Again, please read the news:

"But Queensland University of Technology senior law lecturer Alastair MacAdam said the operation of the fixed speed cameras in the tunnel amounted to "straight entrapment"."

[Ford17]

In the news again

Turns out the Qld Government quietly changed the law in May specifically to suit the digital (Clem 7) speed cameras.

The whole thing is simply dodgy - best to avoid using it if possible.