why chev motors ? - Page 2

flappist · 17-12-2010, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kezzer

pretty cheap to get parts for also, at the end of the day nothing is written in stone. I'd put an Ls7 or Ls9 in my FG if I won tattslotto haha

No, not "political" enough.

Buy a W427 and put a coyote into it......

Assassinbm · 17-12-2010, 02:01 PM

Baaa...aaaa, cause anyone who can read( & even some who can't) can make a chev make decent power,

but it takes someone with skill & a bit more upstairs to make an old Ford produce........

302 XC · 17-12-2010, 07:34 PM

Wasnt the small block chev the first to put out 1 HP per CUIN ???

Its alot easier to ring 350 HP from a 350 Chev than a 351 Clevo

Why in hot rods or anything else ???
Wouldnt surely have nothin to do with the most mass produced motor ever ???

big_landau · 17-12-2010, 07:39 PM

makes you wonder now days,i really dont see there being to much of an advantage anymore when you look at all the crate engines and all the aftermarket parts that are out there now.the chev may be still a little cheaper but not that much,mopar stuff used to be very expensive but there is now a mountain of stuff and even the crate engines are pretty cheap especially the 408 stroker kits for the 360's.
you can buy some very good ford combos now for great prices so i realy dont see the point anymore.

phillyc · 17-12-2010, 08:22 PM

Supply of Chev motors was a big starting point. When they were making twice as many v8s as Ford were back when the hotrodding scene took off.

So, it's basically easier to follow someone else, and with that you develop momentum. Sheer weight of numbers...

Getting more horsepower out of a 350 chev versus 351 Windsor or not, is not really that valid anymore. The 5.0 Mustang helped that. Now you can get all kinds of great heads and intakes etc. Think of 'Clevors' or those with '3V' heads from AFR etc.

The LS series of engines are great value, light and compact. If was to choose a Chev, they would be it. BUT looking at the FRPP catalog reveals Coyote with control module for under $7000 and there are places that offer them for less. They match the LS for weight, but not dimensions and exceed their output with better economy.

As prasac would say, Modulars are made to be boosted!

My neighbour is collecting many of his bits for a Model A and he has a 54 Customline with a flathead. He is thinking about using the flathead in the Model A and getting a newer EL/AU Windsor for the customline. But, he has talked about a bigblock etc for the rod and i'm trying to swing him towards a FI Coyote!

smoo · 17-12-2010, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 302 XC

Wasnt the small block chev the first to put out 1 HP per CUIN ???

Its alot easier to ring 350 HP from a 350 Chev than a 351 Clevo

Why in hot rods or anything else ???
Wouldnt surely have nothin to do with the most mass produced motor ever ???

As well as the family of motor with the most amount of aftermarket performance parts available.
And yeah the 283cui/283hp 57 Hotone. Wouldn't get much change out of 100 grand as long as a rodder hasn't butchered it.

barnz_xr8 · 18-12-2010, 01:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 302 XC

Its alot easier to ring 350 HP from a 350 Chev than a 351 Clevo

lol dude clevos are the ultimate small block hand down!!!! canted and big valves big ports turn them hard and they make heaps more power than any gm sbc. why do you think gm brought out the sb2

wrongwaynorris · 18-12-2010, 05:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barnz_xr8

lol dude clevos are the ultimate small block hand down!!!! canted and big valves big ports turn them hard and they make heaps more power than any gm sbc. why do you think gm brought out the sb2

So true and even the Windsors with the inline valves produce more power than the Chevs hence Holden being shown outrageous favouritism in V8 Supercars by being allowed to develop the HMS engine ( essentially a copy of a Windsor ) to be able to compete . When was the last time a SB Chev won Lemans ( let alone 4 years in a row ) oh thats right it has never happened .

crakrz · 18-12-2010, 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wrongwaynorris

So true and even the Windsors with the inline valves produce more power than the Chevs hence Holden being shown outrageous favouritism in V8 Supercars by being allowed to develop the HMS engine ( essentially a copy of a Windsor ) to be able to compete . When was the last time a SB Chev won Lemans ( let alone 4 years in a row ) oh thats right it has never happened .

The HMS engine or Windsor copy as you put it was developed for project Blueprint in V8 supercars. The Chev still had a 9" deck height block which allowed the use of long rods and some decent height pistons. The Windsor only being 8.2" high meant they could only use shorter rods and short pistons with a very tight ring package. So V8 supercars and their parity rules made the call on that one because there was no way Ford were going to keep up with the Chev's and still stay reliable. So they reduced the Chev block down to 8.2" to keep them on a level playing field.

-Craig

4Vman · 18-12-2010, 07:45 AM

V8SC engine is not a windsor, the heads are far closer to cleveland than windsor..
Its more a hybrid/boss...
If were going to stick to topic and compare factory donks id take a LT1 010 block double hump fuely head 350 chev over a 302/351 windsor by a mile... Only a 4V clevo would be a performance match.

wrongwaynorris · 18-12-2010, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crakrz

The HMS engine or Windsor copy as you put it was developed for project Blueprint in V8 supercars. The Chev still had a 9" deck height block which allowed the use of long rods and some decent height pistons. The Windsor only being 8.2" high meant they could only use shorter rods and short pistons with a very tight ring package. So V8 supercars and their parity rules made the call on that one because there was no way Ford were going to keep up with the Chev's and still stay reliable. So they reduced the Chev block down to 8.2" to keep them on a level playing field.

-Craig

So the siamese port Chev head even in its 18 degree format was a match for the Windsor was it ? If so then why were the heads changed , it was all about allowing Holden to close the 40 odd horsepower deficit they had on the Windsors which were totally reliable and had been for years .

4Vman · 18-12-2010, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wrongwaynorris

So the siamese port Chev head even in its 18 degree format was a match for the Windsor was it ? If so then why were the heads changed , it was all about allowing Holden to close the 40 odd horsepower deficit they had on the Windsors which were totally reliable and had been for years .

A windsor is no match for an 18deg motorsport Chev....
If you're talking the Yates headed Ford SVO block engine thats a different story but its not a windsor.

gossy · 18-12-2010, 10:59 AM

As the old saying goes...............

If you can't afford a Ford, rev a Chev.

**ebxr8240** · 18-12-2010, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

A Windsor is no match for an 18deg motorsport Chev....
If you're talking the Yates headed Ford SVO block engine that's a different story but its not a windsor.

Who cares if it's W or C it's a Ford and if it works!!!
The Boss had the canted Valves first ..But you NEVER hear about Boss heads being used on Clevo's.. Sheesh who cares !!!
Plenty of GOOD aftermarket heads these days anyway...
Back in time I guess the old 327/350 had the most aftermarket parts.. Then it flowed into Fords.. Unfortunately for some time [in U.S] the Clevo missed out...
I guess Ford made better bodies and at the time they had the side valve while Chev had the 265 push rod...
So the hybrid car evolved .. Like 9" in most cars, even rotaries ...

4Vman · 18-12-2010, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ebxr8240

Who cares if it's W or C it's a Ford and if it works!!!
The Boss had the canted Valves first ..But you NEVER hear about Boss heads being used on Clevo's.. Sheesh who cares !!!
Plenty of GOOD aftermarket heads these days anyway...
Back in time I guess the old 327/350 had the most aftermarket parts.. Then it flowed into Fords.. Unfortunatly for some time [in U.S] the Clevo missed out...

Yes but strictly speaking a Ford motorsport block is not a "windsor",close, but not the same, futher to that once you add canted valve yates heads its even more a hybrid with little in common to a production C or W...
The Boss 302 heads were simply lifted/adapted from the cleveland program because the windsor heads didnt breath..... The Cleveland development program started in 1968....

**ebxr8240** · 18-12-2010, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Yes but strictly speaking a Ford motorsport block is not a "windsor",close, but not the same, futher to that once you add canted valve yates heads its even more a hybrid with little in common to a production C or W...
The Boss 302 heads were simply lifted/adapted from the cleveland program because the windsor heads didnt breath..... The Cleveland development program started in 1968....

Aha yes but still on a W...Aha... Most racing parts are hybrid now anyway.. For the better...
At Least as Ford people we can walk into a Ford Performance and purchase a racing block and build one..
TMK you cannot do it that easy with the G.M product...

4Vman · 18-12-2010, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ebxr8240

Aha yes but still on a W...Aha... Most racing parts are hybrid now anyway.. For the better...
At Least as Ford people we can walk into a Ford Performance and purchase a racing block and build one..
TMK you cannot do it that easy with the G.M product...

Yep, although in the US they have a huge range of GM motorsport blocks avaliable over the counter.. Tha aurora HMS is ours though, but you cant buy them OTC..

FPV8U · 18-12-2010, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Yep, although in the US they have a huge range of GM motorsport blocks avaliable over the counter.. Tha aurora HMS is ours though, but you cant buy them OTC..

I thought the Aurora/HMS Block was sourced from a Pontiac racing progarm when it was introduced in 2003?

4Vman · 18-12-2010, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPV8U

I thought the Aurora/HMS Block was sourced from a Pontiac racing progarm when it was introduced in 2003?

Its an old 5.0l short deck SBC GM Indi car block reproduced for us.

FPV8U · 18-12-2010, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Its an old 5.0l short deck SBC GM Indi car block reproduced for us.

Cheers for clearing that one up for me.

**ebxr8240** · 18-12-2010, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPV8U

I thought the Aurora/HMS Block was sourced from a Pontiac racing program when it was introduced in 2003?

Wasn't it a speedway block ?? From what I understand they didn't have provision for engine mounts.. Can be twin cam or pushrod...
We are getting off subject... Lol...
Edit Yep Indi.. But in twin cam form..

big_landau · 18-12-2010, 02:03 PM

i better buy a rocking chair,this one is going to go on for a while

.

chevypower · 18-12-2010, 02:52 PM

best Chevy engine is a diesel. 6.6L Duramax.

irish2 · 18-12-2010, 04:24 PM

Chev engines were compromised from the start! There was a time before electronic ignition where you had to actually access the dizzy. Oh thats right the best place for it is against the firewall.

irish2 · 18-12-2010, 04:28 PM

Oh an I don't believe a chev has won the engine masters challenge for over a decade? Be happy to be proven wrong!

4Vman · 18-12-2010, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irish2

Oh an I don't believe a chev has won the engine masters challenge for over a decade? Be happy to be proven wrong!

EM is an aftermarket head comp anyway... no relevance to factory heads or engines.
If we're talking factory heads the SBC had some good ones from the factory like the venerable double hump fuelies..

irish2 · 18-12-2010, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

EM is an aftermarket head comp anyway... no relevance to factory heads or engines.
If we're talking factory heads the SBC had some good ones from the factory like the venerable double hump fuelies..

The engine masters challenge you can build whatever you want within certain guidelines. Most of the time it is limited to 400ci, has a certain rev limit and has to be N/A. You can choose whatever you want to use for the motor. The last 4 years as far as I know have been won by a Clevor.

4Vman · 18-12-2010, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irish2

The engine masters challenge you can build whatever you want withing certain guidelines. Most of the time it is limited to 400ci, has a certain rev limit and has to be N/A. You can choose whatever you want to use for the motor. The last 4 years as far as I know have been won by a Clevor.

Yes i know but nobody will win it with factory cast heads, you'll need decent aftermarket alloy heads to do well.

irish2 · 18-12-2010, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Yes i know but nobody will win it with factory cast heads, you'll need decent aftermarket alloy heads to do well.

Everyone is in the same boat. The fact is an engine is just an air pump. You can make any engine pump lots of air but cost is also a factor. It seems the ford engines from 289 windsors through to 351 clevos held their own or better against GM's offerings here and in America.

4Vman · 18-12-2010, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irish2

Everyone is in the same boat. The fact is an engine is just an air pump. You can make any engine pump lots of air but cost is also a factor. It seems the ford engines from 289 windsors through to 351 clevos held their own or better against GM's offerings here and in America.

In the context of the thread topic id have to disagree, the SBC is, IMO probably the most "successful" and popular small block ever produced and really was only rivaled by the 4V Cleveland for the few years it was manufactured..