Ford readies diesel as turbo dies of thirst

holland_ford · 17-07-2010, 06:05 PM

Ford readies diesel as turbo dies of thirst Territory Turbo Ghia model has been axed as a result of the stricter vehicle emissions regulations.

FORD has quietly killed off the turbocharged version of its Australian-made Territory soft-roader.

The local car maker confirmed to Drive that the Territory Turbo Ghia model (pictured) has been axed as a result of the stricter vehicle emissions regulations that came into effect on July 1.

The Turbo variant joined the Territory range in 2006, two years after the model first launched, surprising an industry that was expecting a more fuel-efficient, diesel version.

Ford Australia updated the turbocharged version of its locally built 4.0-litre in-line six-cylinder for the 2008 FG Falcon to ensure it complied with the new Euro IV emissions laws, though admits sales didn't justify modifying the engine for the Territory.

"We did the engineering work for the Falcon sedan [XR6 Turbo], obviously, to meet Euro IV, but we didn't see enough of a market to do the work for the Territory version," says company spokeswoman Sinead McAlary.

"It was always a niche vehicle and [sales] in the last couple of years had declined. So it was even more niche as people became more concerned about the cost of fuel."

The Turbo's fuel consumption figure of 14.2 litres per 100km was even higher than the company's V8-powered XR8 sedan.

Ford Australia is belatedly developing a diesel engine that will be installed in the Territory next year as a more economical alternative to the sole-surviving normally aspirated six-cylinder.

The car maker will be hoping an oil-burning version will help the mid-sized soft-roader return to its sales heyday of 2004 and 2005.

A diesel Territory is believed to have been on Ford Australia's drawing board soon after the vehicle's 2004 launch, but it was ditched in favour of developing the turbo model.

It's a decision that has cost Ford sales as sales of home-grown six-cylinder vehicles have dwindled as buyers flocked towards smaller, more fuel efficient cars.

Holden's imported Captiva has regularly outsold its Ford rival, mostly as a result of a diesel option. About half of Captivas sold are diesel-powered.

Diesel variants of the segment-leading Toyota LandCruiser Prado make up about 80 per cent of sales

Joe5619 · 17-07-2010, 06:15 PM

It is intersting to read 50% of Captiva & a huge 80% of Prados are diesel... It is amazing the petrol only territ is still keeping them insight on sales... New model should sell well I think!!

Nikked · 17-07-2010, 06:50 PM

Just what the terry needs :-)

**Luke Plaizier** · 17-07-2010, 06:56 PM

Well, this continues the debate for Diesel Falcon too.

The reason for getting a diesel is if you have a large vehicle and thus get hit by high fuel costs. Hmm.

If such a percentage of the vehicles mentioned in the article are bought as diesels, what about non 4WD cars? What percentage of i30's are Diesels? Or Jaguars? What of the other Euro sedans that are the same size roughly as the Falcon - AUDI, BMW, MERC - what percentage of those large sedans are bought as diesels?

Maybe Ford have done the research, and the answer is 'not that many'? Ford's LiLPG and I4T approach seems to be divergent from other marques going with Diesel. Then again Australia seems somewhat unique with it's low-priced low-tax plentiful LPG supply. I sure hope Ford have got it right....

Lukeyson

dannyhilton · 17-07-2010, 08:25 PM

It's great to see that even without a diesel, the Territory has most of the time achieved sales in access of 1000+ units a month. While I'm sure some of those petrol sales will move to diesel, I'm hoping Ford can get the Territory back into 1500 units a month, permitting the factory can accept this of course.

phillyc · 17-07-2010, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke Plaizier

Well, this continues the debate for Diesel Falcon too.

The reason for getting a diesel is if you have a large vehicle and thus get hit by high fuel costs. Hmm.

If such a percentage of the vehicles mentioned in the article are bought as diesels, what about non 4WD cars? What percentage of i30's are Diesels? Or Jaguars? What of the other Euro sedans that are the same size roughly as the Falcon - AUDI, BMW, MERC - what percentage of those large sedans are bought as diesels?

Maybe Ford have done the research, and the answer is 'not that many'? Ford's LiLPG and I4T approach seems to be divergent from other marques going with Diesel. Then again Australia seems somewhat unique with it's low-priced low-tax plentiful LPG supply. I sure hope Ford have got it right....

Lukeyson

Ford will need to make LiLPG fashionable. Which is a tough ask as no-one else is talking it up, but plenty are talking about diesel. Even if they have the superior product, they will be swimming against the tide. Particularly so, because they will be launching a diesel themselves in the Territory and continuing to spruik the Eco-netic Fiesta.

IMO Ford should offer diesel in ALL their offerings as well as LiLPG in Territory and Falcon.

phillyc · 17-07-2010, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannyhilton

It's great to see that even without a diesel, the Territory has most of the time achieved sales in access of 1000+ units a month. While I'm sure some of those petrol sales will move to diesel, I'm hoping Ford can get the Territory back into 1500 units a month, permitting the factory can accept this of course.

I believe that Territory with new looks (interior and exterior) and TDV6 can breach 2,000 sales a month once more.

jpd80 · 17-07-2010, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phillyc

I believe that Territory with new looks (interior and exterior) and TDV6 can breach 2,000 sales a month once more.

It's not just the diesel that will do it, a ZF for the popular RWD Territory would go over big time
and most likely reduce fuel consumption from 11.6 l/100 klm down to 10.9 l/100 klm.
I wonder whether Ford would have the guts to try the I-4 Ecoboost in the RWD Territory.

and yes, Diesel is the crowning glory for Territory and should boost sales by 800 or so units a month.

chevypower · 18-07-2010, 01:52 AM

well the EcoBoost V6 gets 22mpg in the Flex AWD. One would expect similar fuel econ in the Territory with the same engine. That's 10.7L/100. Not as good as diesel fuel econ, but not bad considering the performance you get.

jpd80 · 18-07-2010, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chevypower

well the EcoBoost V6 gets 22mpg in the Flex AWD. One would expect similar fuel econ in the Territory with the same engine. That's 10.7L/100. Not as good as diesel fuel econ, but not bad considering the performance you get.

There was only something like 200 Territory Ghia Turbo sales this year,
considering the $70,000 price tag, it's no wonder buyers didn't want it.

The previous low series Territory Turbo was dropped in 2009,
seems people are more interested in economical versions.

Diesel Territory and ZF in RWD I-6 can't come quick enough.

mcnews · 18-07-2010, 09:27 AM

The diesel will no doubt have a major cost premium over the petrol. Wonder how many housewives will enjoy the dirty diesel bowsers, lol

jpd80 · 18-07-2010, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcnews

The diesel will no doubt have a major cost premium over the petrol. Wonder how many housewives will enjoy the dirty diesel bowsers, lol

LOL, most of Territory's competition have been diesel powered for years...
In terms of petrol Vs diesel sales, Prado 80%, Captiva 50% and I suspect
that Hyundai Santa Fe and Kia Sorrento also heavily favor the diesel too...
The only reson that Toyota don't have a diesel Kluger is because a hybrid Highlander exists in the USA...

Seduce XR6 · 18-07-2010, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcnews

The diesel will no doubt have a major cost premium over the petrol. Wonder how many housewives will enjoy the dirty diesel bowsers, lol

As we are getting the now superceded 2.7L engine at a great price for Ford I dont think the price of a Diesel over a petrol should be huge.

4k would be fair as many of the other companies will give you a diesel starting from the same price as their petrol model going upwards.

Some are 1k more, others 2k more etc etc

If it cost Ford an extra 2k & they decided to whack an extra 8k on it that would just be a money grab.

It is after all mainly about economy & it would take a long time for the average person to recoup say a 4k difference at say 4l per 100 k's improvement.

The 3 litre would have been very nice with its 600nm's but the 2.7 will still do ok in a territory.

jamesson1980 · 18-07-2010, 10:22 AM

Turbo diesel Territory?

naddis01 · 18-07-2010, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcnews

The diesel will no doubt have a major cost premium over the petrol. Wonder how many housewives will enjoy the dirty diesel bowsers, lol

I can't say we have had a problem with dirty bowsers since we bought a diesel car. That argument is just a furphy. If the housewives are that concerned about it, they can just buy a pair of gloves to wear when refilling. Hardly a deal breaker. I know it doesn't worry my wife at all.

Dr Smith · 18-07-2010, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcnews

The diesel will no doubt have a major cost premium over the petrol. Wonder how many housewives will enjoy the dirty diesel bowsers, lol

Doesn't seem to hurt the Golf, X5 and ML drivers, or maybe they get their husbands to fill up....or the servants, lol.

Edit: The bigger issues might be not realising your using a high-flow pump if your vehicle's line is narrow...soon find out how lingering diesel can be.

JBomb3000 · 18-07-2010, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seduce XR6

As we are getting the now superceded 2.7L engine at a great price for Ford I dont think the price of a Diesel over a petrol should be huge.

4k would be fair as many of the other companies will give you a diesel starting from the same price as their petrol model going upwards.

Some are 1k more, others 2k more etc etc

If it cost Ford an extra 2k & they decided to whack an extra 8k on it that would just be a money grab.

It is after all mainly about economy & it would take a long time for the average person to recoup say a 4k difference at say 4l per 100 k's improvement.

The 3 litre would have been very nice with its 600nm's but the 2.7 will still do ok in a territory.

I think a 4k gap is top end. I'd happily pay up to 2k more for the diesel. Begrudgingly pay up to 4k more for the diesel but i wouldn't pay over 4k for it.

naddis01 · 18-07-2010, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

Edit: The bigger issues might be not realising your using a high-flow pump if your vehicle's line is narrow...soon find out how lingering diesel can be.

Simply solved by only pulling the trigger on half way.

The G6ET Spot · 18-07-2010, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by naddis01

I can't say we have had a problem with dirty bowsers since we bought a diesel car. That argument is just a furphy. If the housewives are that concerned about it, they can just buy a pair of gloves to wear when refilling. Hardly a deal breaker. I know it doesn't worry my wife at all.

Yeh, but 99% of the people that have territories in the city never see dusty road either. Heaven help us if they had to pick up a diesel pump.

Dr Smith · 18-07-2010, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by naddis01

Simply solved by only pulling the trigger on half way.

that'll solve the flow, but you can't insert the high-flow nozzle into the cars receiver at all, (eg my VW T5 which is also a comm. vehicle) you need to line them up perfectly end to end and not move....something I wouldn't trust many to do on a cold day, holding a greasy trigger, maintaining a reduced flow and staying aligned with the outside ring of the cars inlet.........hell drunk males have enough trouble at a urinal.

naddis01 · 18-07-2010, 02:06 PM

I can't say I have had trouble using the high flow pumps in our Mazda 6 and the nozzle does not go into the throat of the filler at all. You just need to be careful.

jpd80 · 18-07-2010, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

Doesn't seem to hurt the Golf, X5 and ML drivers, or maybe they get their husbands to fill up....or the servants, lol.

Edit: The bigger issues might be not realising your using a high-flow pump if your vehicle's line is narrow...soon find out how lingering diesel can be.

All the Hi Flow pumps in our area are marked for trucks only,
it's not that big of an issue, the spout size is different too...

Terraplainin' · 18-07-2010, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

There was only something like 200 Territory Ghia Turbo sales this year. Considering the $70,000 price tag, it's no wonder buyers didn't want it.

I paid about that for one in 2007. It's been worth every cent. Best vehicle I have owned or driven.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

The previous low series Territory Turbo was dropped in 2009, seems people are more interested in economical versions.

No, potential TGT buyers are interested in buying an FG version. I have not met any current TGT owners who have said that they would not consider purchasing an FG version to replace their current car. They are not, however, likely to be overly enthusiastic about replacing their current car with a virtually identical one, hence the lower sales over the last 12 - 18 months.

Dumping the TGT is akin to dumping the 5.8 in '82. A knee jerk reaction and short sighted.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

Diesel Territory and ZF in RWD I-6 can't come quick enough.

This bit I totally agree with!

jpd80 · 19-07-2010, 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terraplainin'

No, potential TGT buyers are interested in buying an FG version. I have not met any current TGT owners who have said that they would not consider purchasing an FG version to replace their current car. They are not, however, likely to be overly enthusiastic about replacing their current car with a virtually identical one, hence the lower sales over the last 12 - 18 months.

Sinead McAlry said that Ford had done the Euro 4 work on the Territory I-6 Turbo
but couldn't justify it,maybe that decision can be reversed after initial release of
V6 diesel Turbo, I suspect that Ford wants to really push improved fuel economy
in the new Territory model, maybe delaying Turbo I-6 is part of that strategy..

Like most things Ford if the older model is left to wither, it takes a while
for buyers to come back if ever, I sincerely hope Turbo Territory makes a
reappearance along with XR8 Falcon, these are value adding models for Ford
but they also need buyer support to survive.

mcnews · 19-07-2010, 09:43 AM

Maybe I'm just soft then. But when I go and fill the diesel containers etc. the bowsers are always filthy and you end up standing in a pool of semi dried oily diesel. Just can't imagine women taking the kids to school (probably by far the biggest amount of miles these style of cars do, as ridiculous as that is) love standing in pools of oily diesel and handling slimy diesel pumps.

Brazen · 19-07-2010, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcnews

Maybe I'm just soft then. But when I go and fill the diesel containers etc. the bowsers are always filthy and you end up standing in a pool of semi dried oily diesel. Just can't imagine women taking the kids to school (probably by far the biggest amount of miles these style of cars do, as ridiculous as that is) love standing in pools of oily diesel and handling slimy diesel pumps.

I guess for a lot of people they wont realise this until after they have bought the car, by then its too late Ford already have the sale.

Im really curious on how Ford will package this diesel. I assume it will be a cost option on all variants and not just a model in its own right. Im also curious on whether it will be offered on RWD as well as AWD.

That means a Territory TX, you will need to pay $4k extra for the AWD and another $4k extra for the diesel. It starts getting pricey - but still probably worth it.

mcnews · 19-07-2010, 10:35 AM

I am guessing that it will be a lot more than 4k. Three year life cycle for the model, good sales will realise 20,000 cars produced per annum so 60,000 all up. One would imagine the cost of buying the engine, the engineering to install it etc., test it, cure problems, tooling investments, front end underpinning changes etc. etc. That would cost how much?

Brazen · 19-07-2010, 12:22 PM

Will the diesel Territory have any external distinguishing features such as hood scoop? Or will it just be a little badge? Cant wait to see some spy photos.

FNQracing · 19-07-2010, 01:23 PM

Gee, that Territory is in major need of a face lift. It looks so gawd dammed old. It's even getting its **** kicked in the sales race by crappy Korean tin cans with Holden badges.

The spy shots I've seen have the front end disguised. Looks like they'll only give it a bit of a nose job instead of the body transplant it so desperately needs.

XWGT · 19-07-2010, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

It's not just the diesel that will do it, a ZF for the popular RWD Territory would go over big time
and most likely reduce fuel consumption from 11.6 l/100 klm down to 10.9 l/100 klm.
.

Man it would want to be better than that. My new Prado Turbo Diesel returns around 8.1 l / 100 COMBINED and down as low at 7.1 on open roads cruising. And thats full time 4wd! The new Territory would at least want to match that with a 6 speed auto or their wasting their time.