Time to boycott Fairfax?

[turbodewd]

Yet another bash in the AU auto industry in todays smh.com.au - this time finance writer Michael Pascoe. What follows is the predictable anti-AU crowd. I tire of reading this.

Now I will freely admit I have no access to a detailed report which spells out whether Australia would be better/worse off dropping Fed govt assistance to the local carmakers. But trying to put AU auto workers out of a job in light of the international economic climate seems foolish. We know that if China gets a sniffle or coughs and the mining boom goes south we are in for a big hurt session.

So, time to smash Fairfax in the mouth I say. Boycott them any way you can. Alas I dont buy newspapers anymore so....its hard to. Newspapers are a fading sector and by all accounts Fairfax's online enterprises arent making up the difference. This is why their share price is tanking.

I think car manufacturing in AU will outlast Fairfax.

It would be a shame coz I cant stand Murdoch press either...and the ABC is also fairly anti AU car making sooo....cut em to shreds Prime Minister Abbot!

[flooded one]

the media can either make ya or break ya. I hope car manufacturing survives here too. unfortunately the media doesn't seem too want it too.

[flappist]

Don't boycott Fairfax, boycott whome ever is advertising on the page that has the article and let them know you are boycotting them.

Fairfax is run by accountants not journalists and the only way to influence them is to attack the money stream.

[TC200six]

Boycotting media outlets won't make any difference. The same users here will continue to link damning articles to this forum and make negative comments about the Falcon regardless if I view their sites or not.

[davocol]

Michael Pascoe like it or not is spot on, he states "there is nothing intrinsically superior about a manufacturing job compared with a services job or primary industry or extractive job or any other job. The idea that the only jobs that really count are the ones that make something you can touch is plain wrong" Without getting into the whole politics of the matter, it is simply wrong to keep bailing out companies such as Holden and Ford only for them to reap the rewards Overseas, it's simply bad economics for Australia. Every day work places close, why is the automotive manufacturing industry different to any other industry in Australia.

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by davocol

Michael Pascoe like it or not is spot on, he states "there is nothing intrinsically superior about a manufacturing job compared with a services job or primary industry or extractive job or any other job. The idea that the only jobs that really count are the ones that make something you can touch is plain wrong" Without getting into the whole politics of the matter, it is simply wrong to keep bailing out companies such as Holden and Ford only for them to reap the rewards Overseas, it's simply bad economics for Australia. Every day work places close, why is the automotive manufacturing industry different to any other industry in Australia.

that is SOOOO wrong. If one job DIRECTLY supports many other lines of work and jobs....then you cant tell me its not worth a hell of a lot more then the guy at your local nursery.

And whats he talking about.....im reaping the rewards driving a locally manufactured car.....a car designed and built here....a car that's been voted australias best car 3 out of the last 5 years and is also the SAFEST car you can buy on the used market. That means we make damn good cars and WE get to enjoy them
And why is the automotive industry different to other industries in Australia???? Well if you need to be told...your either niave or you need to get out and learn simple economics

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by davocol

Michael Pascoe like it or not is spot on, he states "there is nothing intrinsically superior about a manufacturing job compared with a services job or primary industry or extractive job or any other job. The idea that the only jobs that really count are the ones that make something you can touch is plain wrong" Without getting into the whole politics of the matter, it is simply wrong to keep bailing out companies such as Holden and Ford only for them to reap the rewards Overseas, it's simply bad economics for Australia. Every day work places close, why is the automotive manufacturing industry different to any other industry in Australia.

A lot other manufacturing jobs have gone and they shouldnt have. Manufacturing never has got the level of support the mining industry gets. Nor does the agricultural sector. Both are equally important to Australia's future and our children's future.

[turbodewd]

Originally Posted by davocol

Michael Pascoe like it or not is spot on, he states "there is nothing intrinsically superior about a manufacturing job compared with a services job or primary industry or extractive job or any other job. The idea that the only jobs that really count are the ones that make something you can touch is plain wrong" Without getting into the whole politics of the matter, it is simply wrong to keep bailing out companies such as Holden and Ford only for them to reap the rewards Overseas, it's simply bad economics for Australia. Every day work places close, why is the automotive manufacturing industry different to any other industry in Australia.

In Australia our 4 big banks are protected from international competition by the 4 pillars policy. US banks could come into Australia and give us a run for our money, possibly swallow the big 4. Our banks are not for sale due to government edict. Would you like an Australian finance system run by US banks!?

There would be blood on the streets!

[aussie muscle]

Originally Posted by davocol

to keep bailing out companies such as Holden and Ford only for them to reap the rewards Overseas,.

well, they are both usa owned, always have been, but it's not like there's going to be an australian owned car company coming in to take their place. once the big three go, we'll be totally dependent on imports, and we KNOW where those rewards go...

[aussie muscle]

online: Quietly dumping Holdens:
http://www.smh.com.au/business/quiet...219-2eonq.html

[xxx000]

Originally Posted by turbodewd

Yet another bash in the AU auto industry in todays smh.com.au - this time finance writer Michael Pascoe. What follows is the predictable anti-AU crowd. I tire of reading this.

Now I will freely admit I have no access to a detailed report which spells out whether Australia would be better/worse off dropping Fed govt assistance to the local carmakers. But trying to put AU auto workers out of a job in light of the international economic climate seems foolish. We know that if China gets a sniffle or coughs and the mining boom goes south we are in for a big hurt session.

So, time to smash Fairfax in the mouth I say. Boycott them any way you can. Alas I dont buy newspapers anymore so....its hard to. Newspapers are a fading sector and by all accounts Fairfax's online enterprises arent making up the difference. This is why their share price is tanking.

I think car manufacturing in AU will outlast Fairfax.

It would be a shame coz I cant stand Murdoch press either...and the ABC is also fairly anti AU car making sooo....cut em to shreds Prime Minister Abbot!

so we should boycott one industry (newspaper) to 'support' another?

How does that work?

and all because you don't like one writer's opinion being published in a newspaper?

Michael Pascoe is entitled to his opinion and Fairfax is just as entitled to publish it. Calling for some type of boycott because they published it is a tad over the top

[davocol]

Ok so hypothetically everyone boycotts Fairfax, causing Advertisers to cancel their paid adverts meaning the company starts to lose money and in turn sends them bankrupt. Given this company folding would affect a large number of cascading businesses (printing, journalists online and traditional, software developers etc etc) should the government then provide financial assistance to bail them out? There is no reason the automotive manufacturing industry should be different to any other sector, bailing them out simply promotes inefficiencies.

[davocol]

The rewards will go into the consumers’ pockets because the marketplace will be open, prices on vehicles would fall as we would no longer have a local industry to support. Don't get me wrong, I love Falcon, I love Territory, I love Ford Australia but manufacturing in this country needs to become more efficient and stop complaining about the high cost of labour. This is just how the world is, either create efficiency or shift it overseas. That is not to say Design and Engineering still can’t come out of Aus, there is no reason we can’t be a design and engineering hub for APAC.

Originally Posted by aussie muscle

well, they are both usa owned, always have been, but it's not like there's going to be an australian owned car company coming in to take their place. once the big three go, we'll be totally dependent on imports, and we KNOW where those rewards go...

[mik]

To me manufacturing means self reliance for our country, people think it`s all about profit................. very naive train of thought imo.

[mik]

Originally Posted by davocol

The rewards will go into the consumers’ pockets because the marketplace will be open, prices on vehicles would fall as we would no longer have a local industry to support. Don't get me wrong, I love Falcon, I love Territory, I love Ford Australia but manufacturing in this country needs to become more efficient and stop complaining about the high cost of labour. This is just how the world is, either create efficiency or shift it overseas. That is not to say Design and Engineering still can’t come out of Aus, there is no reason we can’t be a design and engineering hub for APAC.

it`s less about efficiency and more about living standards, much of the cost of industry in Australia imo is because we are the "lucky country",
we place a high emphasis on social upkeep, very high safety standards in industry, that many other country`s do not have are not too worried about(life is cheap type country`s).
No amount of building things more efficiently can be made to compete when going up against these country`s with the current fair trade rules and artificially low dollar these country`s have.
Not much value in design and engineering if you have no industry to make stuff.

[SB076]

Originally Posted by davocol

Michael Pascoe like it or not is spot on, he states "there is nothing intrinsically superior about a manufacturing job compared with a services job or primary industry or extractive job or any other job. The idea that the only jobs that really count are the ones that make something you can touch is plain wrong" Without getting into the whole politics of the matter, it is simply wrong to keep bailing out companies such as Holden and Ford only for them to reap the rewards Overseas, it's simply bad economics for Australia. Every day work places close, why is the automotive manufacturing industry different to any other industry in Australia.

Actually manufacturing jobs do offer advantages that other industries don't. For every manufacturing job it creates 5 other jobs (Mining I think from memory creates 1.6 and I cant recall other industries) Hence why governments around the world try to protect their manufacturing base.

Other industries receive assistant (in various forms, could be political, could be geographical) why not manufacturing? The reason governments offer assistance, isn't because they feel compelled to assist everyday Australians, its because we are better off with manufacturing than with out it. Manufacturing (last time I checked ) is still the biggest direct employer of people in Australia (with approx. 1 million jobs)

[bobthebilda]

Originally Posted by turbodewd

Yet another bash in the AU auto industry in todays smh.com.au - this time finance writer Michael Pascoe. What follows is the predictable anti-AU crowd. I tire of reading this.

Now I will freely admit I have no access to a detailed report which spells out whether Australia would be better/worse off dropping Fed govt assistance to the local carmakers. But trying to put AU auto workers out of a job in light of the international economic climate seems foolish. We know that if China gets a sniffle or coughs and the mining boom goes south we are in for a big hurt session.

So, time to smash Fairfax in the mouth I say. Boycott them any way you can. Alas I dont buy newspapers anymore so....its hard to. Newspapers are a fading sector and by all accounts Fairfax's online enterprises arent making up the difference. This is why their share price is tanking.

I think car manufacturing in AU will outlast Fairfax.

It would be a shame coz I cant stand Murdoch press either...and the ABC is also fairly anti AU car making sooo....cut em to shreds Prime Minister Abbot!

So I assume you got so fed up with the article that you didnt get to finish it. If you didnt finish it, why comment on it. Dont tell me this is another "do as i say", not as I do, threads.

[mike_nofx]

Originally Posted by davocol

Ok so hypothetically everyone boycotts Fairfax, causing Advertisers to cancel their paid adverts meaning the company starts to lose money and in turn sends them bankrupt. Given this company folding would affect a large number of cascading businesses (printing, journalists online and traditional, software developers etc etc) should the government then provide financial assistance to bail them out? There is no reason the automotive manufacturing industry should be different to any other sector, bailing them out simply promotes inefficiencies.

So you think that if the boycott really got that serious they wouldnt just agree to stop printing anti Ford and Holden material before going totally bankrupt?

[xxx000]

Originally Posted by mike_nofx

So you think that if the boycott really got that serious they wouldnt just agree to stop printing anti Ford and Holden material before going totally bankrupt?

he wasn't serious, he was giving a hypothetical to show the complete absurdity of the boycott notion: sacrifice one large company and all it's employees (Fairfax) because they might be contributing somehow to putting another out of business by simply publishing that article

[turbodewd]

All I know is that Ive never read an article by a Fairfax journo (motoring or otherwise) which highlights CONSTRUCTIVE ways forward for an AU car industry. They always couch their arguments in terms of Fed govt assistance being removed and letting the industry fend for itself.

They never take the next step and offer suggestions for how the local industry could be expanded. Instantly I would suggest that Fed/State govt depts only buy local, I have seen some ACT government cars which were Hyundais or Klugers - why were these not Territorys or Cruzes???

In addition, suppose all 3 carmakers shut their factories tomoro...instantly taxpayers are paying dole to these people (well, after 8 weeks i think dole payments kick in).

[2011G6E]

The phrase "Don't shoot the messenger" springs to mind...

[DJM83]

Slow news day......

[Spinner77]

In the perfect world that economists inhabit, a services job is as good as a manufacturing one.

In the real world, however, it is very hard for a services business to grow (unless it has the protection of the law against competitors, like the banks). One reason is that with a services business, you do not get economies of scale. The very first iPad produced might have cost a billion dollars (including development costs), but the millionth produced cost not much more than the sum of its parts.

The idea that we can grow rich by giving one another haircuts - or even engineering services - really speaks for itself.

At the risk of upsetting some people, I would venture to suggest (just suggest) that if you really want a formula for going broke really fast, buy an economics text book, and follow exactly what it says.

[jpblue1000]

Originally Posted by Spinner77

The idea that we can grow rich by giving one another haircuts - or even engineering services - really speaks for itself.

I know more rich people who derive their income from service provision than I do who are working in the manufacturing sector, Doctors, Lawyers, Engineers, sales people, financial services etc. None of the guys I know who work in manufacturing are what I would call rich.

I don't think the issue is should we have an economy without manufacturing, there are plenty of sucessfull ones but they transitioned over decades so maybe too late for us. The issue is what should we be manufacturing. An expensive workforce cant be making basic cheap goods, that's what China was good for and India today. What an expensive manufacturing economy should be doing is innovating not copying, If we are first and the product is worthwhile they will pay for it and support our expensive workforce. If we innovate rather than copy we can be competitive.
JP

[Resurrection]

A lot of today's problems faced by Ford Australia stem from the AU debacle. So the author is not wrong. However, how about laying off Ford for a while and write some sob stories about Holden - I can name a few which have been glossed over.

[jpblue1000]

Have you guys not realised, Holden is Australia's golden child, the cool kid in school the Jock that everyone loves, Ford on the other hand sits locked in its locker with an atomic wedgee, crying becuase its glasses were broken and had names shouted at it.
All the other Kids are going to curtail to holden and take out their own insecurities on the daggy kid ford.
Remember just like you did as a kid at playschool.
Ford needs to come out George Mc Fly style and kick some ***, That means in this marketing led world by doing good marketing, of what we believe is good product.
JP

[ltd]

Don't worry, SMH and fairfucts are in a whole world of poo, and doubtful many people read it. What I'm saying is, all the little precious leftie intelligentsia and academia like Michelle Grattan, Ross Gittens and their co-workers have less job security than those at Ford or Holden.
Simply put, fairfax shares are worth about 10% of what they once were worth because no one likes to read stories about how good people like Gillard are when the public sentiment has completely shifted. From a high of $3.60 in 2007, fairfax is floundering with share prices at $0.54. This price is up from historic lows of $0.38 last year when Gina Rinehart bought 20 million shares in the hope of widening the audience and recovering the company but she's been stonewalled at every attempt to modernise the paper and giving it broader appeal.

Gina Rinehart (who they decry every day in their articles) only has to sell her remaining shares and fairfax is no more.

[jpblue1000]

Reinharts purchase had nothing to do with making the media group prosperous, it was a bid to own enough media such that she could sway the next election as she wanted a different political outcome.
The stonewalling is the editors etc trying to maintain some editorial control and cease being dictated too. It is cheaper for the miners to rig elections than pay the proposed taxes.
JP

[P6LTD351]

Originally Posted by jpblue1000

Have you guys not realised, Holden is Australia's golden child, the cool kid in school the Jock that everyone loves, Ford on the other hand sits locked in its locker with an atomic wedgee, crying becuase its glasses were broken and had names shouted at it.
All the other Kids are going to curtail to holden and take out their own insecurities on the daggy kid ford.
Remember just like you did as a kid at playschool.
Ford needs to come out George Mc Fly style and kick some ***, That means in this marketing led world by doing good marketing, of what we believe is good product.
JP

Spot on. We are the underdog. Beware the underdog.

[ltd]

Originally Posted by jpblue1000

Reinharts purchase had nothing to do with making the media group prosperous, it was a bid to own enough media such that she could sway the next election as she wanted a different political outcome.
The stonewalling is the editors etc trying to maintain some editorial control and cease being dictated too. It is cheaper for the miners to rig elections than pay the proposed taxes.
JP

And you know all this how? I mean beyond supposition?

I can easily provide references to what I wrote, such as Reinhart owning a chunk of channel 10 which is also tanking, can you?

Also, what taxes are you talking about; so far the mining tax has only raised after administration costs around 38 million. Seems buying into a company and assuming some of its massive debts of over half a billion is surely a more expensive proposition than paying a share of the 126 million tax raised - just to "rig" an election.