Why haven't we seen more PHEVs?

[Crazy Dazz]

I haven't looked for a while at the US market, but last time I did, PHEVs were still big business. They allow companies to cheat on their CAFE and ZEV requirements. Even when they sell a PHEV without a charging station or even a cord, they can still claim the ridiculously low fuel-consumption. Plus some qualify as ZEVs.

Plus I thought other markets also produced PHEVs.

Hence I would have thought the governments FBT exemption on PHEVs would have seen car-makers rushing to bring them in.

FBT exemption is a return to the "Good Old Days" of "Company Cars" before FBT. Plus they should be very attractive to State and Local governments, who not only want to tout their "Green" credentials, but are also subject to FBT.

If you salary sacrifice for one, not only is it Tax, GST, and FBT free, but so too is all your fuel and servicing. I have been looking at doing this, on and off, since the exemption came in.

Yet PHEVs remain relatively rare, stock is hard to find, and many are just ridiculously expensive.

Last time I check, there were only around 8 or 9 eligible models. And for most of those it's almost impossible to find stock.
The huge premium charged, and the DILIGAF attitude of dealers with stock, really starts to negate the cost advantages.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

Yet PHEVs remain relatively rare, stock is hard to find, and many are just ridiculously expensive.

That line sums it up. You need a special use case to want to pay more for a PHEV than a full EV. And, as we see in the sales numbers, people prefer buying full EVs to PHEVs. They make no sense.

[Franco Cozzo]

They're a bit shit I reckon, mate has one and they can't be ****ed charging it, so they just drive around with the EV part disabled or not working.

Makes SFA difference on our commutes, 90% country highway 10% suburbia,

Probably not a great fit for our type of commute, would be a good option for a suburban type.

[Crazy Dazz]

In theory, a PHEV would work well for me.
It would spend a lot of time just sitting their plugged in. And I reckon all the random little trips to the shops, traino, and even airport, could be done on electrical.

But it would still have the range and flexibility for trips to Busso and Margaret River.

I know there are some pretty complicated models, but in the USA, most are just "regular" hybrids, with an optional charging cord.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

They're a bit shit I reckon, mate has one and they can't be ****ed charging it, so they just drive around with the EV part disabled or not working.

They recharge when you brake. The whole point is to use the battery to assist with takeoff from standstill - where petrol is least efficient.

[jpd80]

It would be interesting to know the actual cost differnce between a hybrid and a PHEV,
Athat would give us an idea of how much extra companies are charging us for those
precious few fully electric miles, perhaps why some OEMs are now promoting it as site power?

[ivorya]

Don't PHEVs also drive like hybrids?
I mean, yes, you can plug in and drive electric only but i was under the impression that once battery is depleted, you still can charge the battery using engine/regen.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by b0son

They recharge when you brake. The whole point is to use the battery to assist with takeoff from standstill - where petrol is least efficient.

So useless for us given our first traffic lights are 30km down the road,

[PooDog]

They work well if they have a reasonable range worth using as a full electric (in to town and back ) 60-100km , tgives you both options? , but if only 35km (like the proposed Ranger ) it's not worth plugging in

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by b0son

They recharge when you brake.

There's a few different hybrid systems around, but I've yet to see one that actually features true regenerative braking.

TBH, many Hybrids to date, have not been worth the effort. eg: Camry Hybrids are indeed fuel-efficient, but not spectacular more so than their basic 4-cylinder.

The main advantage comes from changing the ICE to either a Miller Cycle, or a Pseudo-Atkinson Cycle. This makes the engine much more thermally efficient, but robs it of low-down torque, which is replaced by the torque from the electric motor(s). This means that something like a Hybrid Camry, can match the bigger V6 versions for performance, but still deliver improved fuel economy.

Most Hybrids can also deliver seamless "stop-start" operation. And many can use solely electric power for low speeds. So yes, most hybrids offer a huge advantage in heavy traffic and city driving.

Plus of course Hybrid ICEs can deliver vastly superior emissions compliance, compared to Diesel.

[simon varley]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

Plus of course Hybrid ICEs can deliver vastly superior emissions compliance, compared to Diesel.

this is the real driver for development, and largely the reason we don't see many here. Not required for Euro5 compliance, so anything sold here is discretionary sales

[kypez]

https://photos.app.goo.gl/ADZSEdVxTRMpfXkAA

At the EV Show and they have the Ranger PHEV prototype on display.

Sent from my Pixel 8 using Tapatalk

[jpd80]

Europe rates PHEVs as if they are continually run in discharged mode,
that’s why their popularity has diminished in favour of BEVs.

I would hope that the EU takes a more enlightened view of PHEV Ranger as a
noticeable improvement over the 2.0 diesel version otherwise what’s the point.
I hope the PHEV Ranger hits its marks in our region, excited to see it.


America has reduced the tax credit that applies to PHEV to encourage BEVs.
I think they need to drop the all or nothing approach and encourage change.

[simon varley]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

Yet PHEVs remain relatively rare, stock is hard to find, and many are just ridiculously expensive.

because PHEVs run a petrol engine and the vast majority are Eu6. Our shit petrol will ruin the GPF in a few 1000kms. I'm looking forward to next year when we get low sulphur petrol. Hopefully that will open the doors for a few new imports.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by simon varley

because PHEVs run a petrol engine and the vast majority are Eu6. Our shit petrol will ruin the GPF in a few 1000kms. I'm looking forward to next year when we get low sulphur petrol. Hopefully that will open the doors for a few new imports.

Oh great, another bullshit filter in the exhaust that probably costs $8000 to replace when it shags out, just like DPF

[kevino]

Are these a PPF -a petrol particulate filter?
Skoda have had them in the 1.5 engined Kamiqs Scalas and Fabias.
Its strange because in Octavia and Karoq they use the older 1.4 engine as they do with Golf and T Roc which as far as I know doesnt have a PPF.
Maybe Jason as a Skoda owner could find out how the PPF s in 1.5 Fabias Kamiqs and Scalas are going in a service sense.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by kevino

Are these a PPF -a petrol particulate filter?
Skoda have had them in the 1.5 engined Kamiqs Scalas and Fabias.
Its strange because in Octavia and Karoq they use the older 1.4 engine as they do with Golf and T Roc which as far as I know doesnt have a PPF.
Maybe Jason as a Skoda owner could find out how the PPF s in 1.5 Fabias Kamiqs and Scalas are going in a service sense.

Yes, petrol DI engines create particulates mostly when cold but it’s still something that Euro 6 addresses.
Research says that replacing filters will be nowhere near as costly as diesels, a small mercy.

[Ben73]

Expensive. Pretty poor electric range. Then when you run out of battery you have to carry around a heavy dead battery with some tiny 4 cylinder engine.